rFactor 2 Developer Q&A
Posted by Carlitox
ISI finally compiled this. I should start to save money to buy a better GPU...
Read Here
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Read Here
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will A.I. in a slower GT class let a faster car
> through?
> Blue flag code has been improved, AI should move
> away from the racing line in appropriate
> situations.
>
> Still wrong then, since that's the exact opposite
> of what GT Class cars are meant to do.
>
> Why can nobody do decent AI any more?
Sounds like they've just applied the F1 rule to it - isn't F1's way of dealing with backmarkers the exception, rather than the rule?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will A.I. in a slower GT class let a faster car
> through?
> Blue flag code has been improved, AI should move
> away from the racing line in appropriate
> situations.
>
> Still wrong then, since that's the exact opposite
> of what GT Class cars are meant to do.
>
> Why can nobody do decent AI any more?
Sounds like they've just applied the F1 rule to it - isn't F1's way of dealing with backmarkers the exception, rather than the rule?
Yeah, IIRC even F1 used this sort of system until the mid-90s. The AI in rFactor definitely can't handle it, even though AI backmarkers will casually drift out of the way occasionally.
It does amaze me how modern games often produce such poor AI - I know GP2 wasn't necessarily realistic, but it did give more of an illusion of actually racing the rest of the field.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2011 04:30PM by senninho.
It does amaze me how modern games often produce such poor AI - I know GP2 wasn't necessarily realistic, but it did give more of an illusion of actually racing the rest of the field.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2011 04:30PM by senninho.
GP2 was the most complicate simracing game I've ever played. Since GP2 is from 1996, you can see how AI quality has gone down during the last 15 years.
Take my example: I played only one complete GP2 championship, and I finished 2nd, barely. I won five races, and AI was hard to beat. To sum up, that was fun.
Now, I played around ten GP3 complete championships (both GP2 and GP3 with their default carset, because I didn't knew GPG at that moment) and I won all of them, in different levels, and in one occasion I won with 16 wins out of 16 races. You see, that in just four years AI quality declined inmensely. Or it just happened that I was amazing, which is doubtable.
Setting AI level at high levels in modern racing games (F1C ---> onwards) makes other drivers hard to beat, just like GP2, but you feel (at least I feel) that is unrealistic. Sometimes the problem can be caused by Modders (For example: Talent files carelessly made, wrong default configurations, bad physics), but mostly it's from the guys who make the game.
In the case of the talent files, I made a little experiment: I started a race in F1C at Monza with a 02 Williams-BMW and AI difficulty set to maximum. Slower cars overtook me with extreme ease, even though I had the most powerful engine in the 2002 championship.
I put all my hopes and illusions into rFactor 2, but as I said before, I need a better GPU
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Take my example: I played only one complete GP2 championship, and I finished 2nd, barely. I won five races, and AI was hard to beat. To sum up, that was fun.
Now, I played around ten GP3 complete championships (both GP2 and GP3 with their default carset, because I didn't knew GPG at that moment) and I won all of them, in different levels, and in one occasion I won with 16 wins out of 16 races. You see, that in just four years AI quality declined inmensely. Or it just happened that I was amazing, which is doubtable.
Setting AI level at high levels in modern racing games (F1C ---> onwards) makes other drivers hard to beat, just like GP2, but you feel (at least I feel) that is unrealistic. Sometimes the problem can be caused by Modders (For example: Talent files carelessly made, wrong default configurations, bad physics), but mostly it's from the guys who make the game.
In the case of the talent files, I made a little experiment: I started a race in F1C at Monza with a 02 Williams-BMW and AI difficulty set to maximum. Slower cars overtook me with extreme ease, even though I had the most powerful engine in the 2002 championship.
I put all my hopes and illusions into rFactor 2, but as I said before, I need a better GPU
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
I suppose the GP2 AI was more artificial, but I could live with that for the races that it created - I used a 1985 carset once, and it produced two races in a row that were so good I ended up watching the replays all the way through. I had a great battle in both, but - and this is what I think rFactor is missing - so did AI drivers around the other side of the circuit.
Don't even get me started on car failures...
Don't even get me started on car failures...
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will A.I. in a slower GT class let a faster car
> through?
> Blue flag code has been improved, AI should move
> away from the racing line in appropriate
> situations.
>
> Still wrong then, since that's the exact opposite
> of what GT Class cars are meant to do.
>
> Why can nobody do decent AI any more?
When I first read that I assumed this would mean the slower (GT to use an LMS example) car would move off line to let the faster (prototype) car through, which as Dave says is wrong.
Upon further reflection, as well as just having a couple of LMS AI races on rFactor 1, I realise this could mean the opposite. Right now the AI prototypes lose a hell of a lot of time (compared to me, and I am by no means a great driver in traffic) trying to pass the GT cars, because they appear to follow the "overtaking" code: Follow closely through the corner, draft on the straight and outbrake them into the following corner, when what I do is go off the racing line, frequently using the superior grip of my car to go around the outside of the GTs.
So maybe when they say "AI should move away from the racing line in appropriate situations." they mean that the prototype will attempt to use a sub optimal line (such as round the outside) to pass in the corners, the blue flag is involved as a trigger to tell the AI to use a different overtaking approach. We would have to see it in action to work out exactly how its going to work, but thats how I would do it if I was trying to write code for multiple class racing.
ISI never got the AI right in RF1, so perhaps the best approach for them to take would be to increase the customisation available on AI, if they can't get it right themselves, someone in the community would surely do a better job. Its a real shame because poor quality AI was what held RF1 back for me, I always had a great time simply driving the cars on my own, but I did so little racing because I didn't have time for leagues, and random "pick up races" were usually full of bad drivers and used "flavour of the month" mods. I really want to race the mod I want, when I want, on the track I want, that means AI racing, which just wasn't feasible on RF1.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2011 12:58PM by Race_Monkey.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will A.I. in a slower GT class let a faster car
> through?
> Blue flag code has been improved, AI should move
> away from the racing line in appropriate
> situations.
>
> Still wrong then, since that's the exact opposite
> of what GT Class cars are meant to do.
>
> Why can nobody do decent AI any more?
When I first read that I assumed this would mean the slower (GT to use an LMS example) car would move off line to let the faster (prototype) car through, which as Dave says is wrong.
Upon further reflection, as well as just having a couple of LMS AI races on rFactor 1, I realise this could mean the opposite. Right now the AI prototypes lose a hell of a lot of time (compared to me, and I am by no means a great driver in traffic) trying to pass the GT cars, because they appear to follow the "overtaking" code: Follow closely through the corner, draft on the straight and outbrake them into the following corner, when what I do is go off the racing line, frequently using the superior grip of my car to go around the outside of the GTs.
So maybe when they say "AI should move away from the racing line in appropriate situations." they mean that the prototype will attempt to use a sub optimal line (such as round the outside) to pass in the corners, the blue flag is involved as a trigger to tell the AI to use a different overtaking approach. We would have to see it in action to work out exactly how its going to work, but thats how I would do it if I was trying to write code for multiple class racing.
ISI never got the AI right in RF1, so perhaps the best approach for them to take would be to increase the customisation available on AI, if they can't get it right themselves, someone in the community would surely do a better job. Its a real shame because poor quality AI was what held RF1 back for me, I always had a great time simply driving the cars on my own, but I did so little racing because I didn't have time for leagues, and random "pick up races" were usually full of bad drivers and used "flavour of the month" mods. I really want to race the mod I want, when I want, on the track I want, that means AI racing, which just wasn't feasible on RF1.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2011 12:58PM by Race_Monkey.
Well in rfactor I can have better graphics than this on the video! And this specs GO AWAY RFACTOR2 I will play PC friendly games not this kind of monsters
The old classics will be always better than the newest games.
The old classics will be always better than the newest games.
Race_Monkey lives 
Hi Gui, yeah found myself back here after doing some google searches on improving rF AI (just reinstalled), and found myself making a post!
Yeah I've been trying to hash together my own LMS style series to race against the AI, but I found myself having to set up something like 15-20 different cars for every circuit, even though its simple stuff like gear ratios and wing settings, its still too much work and the end results are still mediocre, especially given the AI's inability to pass slower classes.
I was running in LMP2 and needed the other cars to be seconds ahead of me in qualifying to have any chance in the race, because I could make as much as 5s a lap up in traffic.
I am still having fun just testing the cars on an empty track though, more recent sims might be more realistic, but nothing can beat rF for sheer variety of cars and tracks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 10:15PM by Race_Monkey.
I was running in LMP2 and needed the other cars to be seconds ahead of me in qualifying to have any chance in the race, because I could make as much as 5s a lap up in traffic.
I am still having fun just testing the cars on an empty track though, more recent sims might be more realistic, but nothing can beat rF for sheer variety of cars and tracks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 10:15PM by Race_Monkey.
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