Braking in rFactor

I have not heard of Starforce "completely destroying computers", but I will admit to it having a host of problems, such as "disk drive performance degradation, weakening of operating system security and stability". What I think is the worst, is that these issue are forced upon the paying customer without even informing them. Thus the paying customer is completely screwed over, and those that do not pay are untouched by the issues of Starforce copy protection, as the cracking scene just saw it as another challenge. So not only is it harmful, and it targets the wrong audience, it is also completely useless. Adding insult to injury the company behind starforce threatened to sue the journalist that exposed these problems, which is just another reason to stand firm in the quest to undermine their income, and thus put them out of business. The only mitigation circumstance, is that Protection Technology issued a public apology and admitted that they were in the wrong, although they still don't admit the harmful effects the software has on target computers. I have yet to see a public apology from iRacing.

Did I do that, undermine their income, and thus put them out of business? No. I bought one product that they "protect". I put it off for almost 4 years and it is from the bargain bin. Does it make me a slut to my racing addiction? Yeah, I recon it does, because it did make me compromise my ideals.

Back in 2004 and onwards, Dave Kaemmer, President of iRacing threatened financial hardship and lawsuits against anyone that opposed their ownership of the NASCAR 2003 software. To quote financial backer of iRacing John Henry, they needed to snuff out the free, 3rd-party modifications as they were in “direct competition to our software”. Kaemmer having up till then supported the modding community for a decade, did a complete 180 in the name of glory and profit, and went so far as to calling his own long-time supporters and customers “hackers” and “thieves” on the iRacing website. Hackers and thieves....!?!

iRacing, in contrast to Protection Technology, actually made good on their threats and sued Tim McArthur. They lost. First of all they tried to enforce a copyright THEY DID NOT EVEN OWN! Secondly John Henry even went so far, that he embarked on a campaign of character assassination on public forums on Tim McArthur. In the guise of RazorbackOne, he spread lies and slander about Tim McArthurs past. With such a weak case, and open to being counter-sued, they had to settle. So in the end, it was all just scare tactics, abuse of power and corporate bullying! The allegations I make are accurate as you do remember.

You do remember, that back in 2005, we did talk about this, and agreed that while everyone and their mother hated them back then for their corporate bullying, if iRacing delivered, then everybody would also forgive them and buy their stuff anyway? You DO remember that, right? We also agreed that it was exceptionally weak that people are so @#$%& fickle. Unfortunately this is EXACTLY what happened! The fanboyism has even gone so far, that there is not even a mention of these issues on the Wikipedia entry for iRacing anymore. Everything has been completely glossed over.

Regarding your addiction (and if you will be so kind, you can see I wrote "you guys" in the previous post), come on dude... don't defend it. You promoted these guys and even profited from their increased sales. You are "all in" is it were. As you said tongue in cheek: "We're both sluts now". If you have become a slut, you might as well be without shame and candid about it. Unless you are the incarnation of Saint Francis of Assisi, you will most likely do it again later in life.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 04:32AM by Morbid.

As you said tongue in cheek: "We're both sluts now".

Indeed, it was tongue in cheek. A joke. About how much I used to hate iRacing, and how much you hated Starforce. To me it's the exact same thing, and I haven't defended by turn around on iRacing, so instead attempted to bring humour to it. You don't need to lecture me on iRacing, I know it all, just like you know about Starforces issues (see [www.glop.org] for mentions of the hardware failures that Starforces causes). Of course we could go further into Starforce too, about the bullying and linking to illegal content they have done before too, but why bother typing what we both already know.

Regarding your addiction (and if you will be so kind, you can see I wrote "you guys" in the previous post), come on dude... don't defend it.

I'm not defending my turn around and have never tried to justify it, or pretend I never had the opposite opinion. I defended the word "addiction", since of all of us VTers (Sim, Neil, myself, etc), Neil is the only one who is hardcore playing it, and only because he is signed off work ill. Whilst we do post about it lot, it has been months between races for me, and currently 4 months for others. I don't think it's an addiction, and I don't think that is the same thing as the joke of "being sluts" for changing what we said before.

Quite honestly, I am disappointed. I made a joke (nothing more) about us selling out and you defended yourself by saying iRacing was worse. To me it is the same thing. We both were against using a product for a specific reason, and ended up giving in. You can justify it if you want, but it's still the same to me. There was no need to take the joke that far, but meh.

Mortal - new V8Factor/Bathurst released - [www.virtualr.net]

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Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I know I will take heat for this, but IMHO giving
> in to iRacing is much worse than giving in to
> Starforce. Starforce is annoying, but never
> deliberately set out to destroy the community, to
> make way for their own product. I just think that
> is unforgivable. I know a lot of you have given
> in. You guys are like drug addicts. As long as
> they supply your fix, you don't need to consider
> the fact that your pushers are right a$$hole$.


Wow Lasse, I used to have respect for you.

there is so much i want to say to you, but i personaly dont think it would make a difference.

Get over your grudges, all they do is make you dark inside.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 08:52AM by NeilPearson.

In this instance I agree with Morbid. I'm sorry but people that went with it after raging they would boycott when the suing happened have no integrity. Not that that is an uncommon thing nowadays.

You think people would be more able to resist something that is in effect a modded nr2003. It's not even a new engine. You can tell it's based on gpl.

I heard recently that the people sued are having to pay $25 000. For giving back to the community they get screwed in this way, and how does the community repay them?

I guess they do own some rights to nr2003 - or at least more than they do to gpl, as I have no question in saying that if they did they would have no hesitation in shutting down gpl and its modding as they have done with nr2003.

This is without even taking into account the immoral pricing of iracing. Many of the community could not afford something like that but the rest are quick to jump ship and then preach about iracing to the world, not telling them the rest of the story - those that should know better.

You have been manipulated. Iracing plays to an elitist attitude to racing simulations, and makes you think that screwing others out of racing is a good thing.

In this situation you would hope the community would pull together and either fight the nr2003 court cases so modding could continue (perhaps by putting up such a backlash that iracing is forced to rethink) or by continuing work on gpl and helping that to evolve and thrive. Sadly neither has happened.

You know all that "I won't buy xfactor crap, let's protest and make a stand" - well you just bought xfactor mate.
(The real protest is to buy neither).

Edit - oh and morbid about the starforce, you could just get gtr 2 and install the power and the glory mod - which aims to basically be gtl with extra content and proper championships to race in: [www.gtlw.co.uk] I think there are old tracks for it too - which was one of the reasons i never bought gtl because of the new tracks. The other being starforce naturally.

H E L L O



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 01:24PM by Daniel Knott.

Although I disagree with you Daniel, I do see where you are coming from until this -

You know all that "I won't buy xfactor crap, let's protest and make a stand" - well you just bought xfactor mate.
(The real protest is to buy neither).

mmm, that doesn't really work. Otherwise the logic here would be I'm not buying iRacing, so to really protest it I won't buy rFactor either. It doesn't really make sense, unless every single person is protesting something, and that is a useless idea because not everybody has the same opinion.

If you buy a Starforce protected product, you are OKing the use of that copy protection. You are saying OK to them providing a system which causes hardware failures. That to me is no different to iRacing boycotts. A boycott is a boycott and if you go back on it, you went back on your word.

What's bugging me about this is really is not the talk of iRacing, or the fact I went back on what I said, but the fact I achknowledged that I did, and in a JOKE, mentioned that someone else did, expecting them to just reply "haha, we are sluts. Wana sleep together?", rather than come out with a post that was basically "Well, what you did was worse".

Meh, quite frankly.

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Boo @#$%& hoo.

Get over the past.

i dont know the true story and i dont give a @#$%&. all i want is a Racing game thats acurate as possible and Fun.

you know what, iracing delivers. the GFX engine is the prettiest out there, rfactors ugly as bat @#$%&, the physics are the best out there far better than anything rfactor has. Sound, well thats a bit lack luster but a new Sound engine is coming.


What Im concerned about your post is the immoral costing.

Please tell me, where is the immoral pricing?

Hmm sorry i meant that to truly protest over the music industry you should not be buying either of those songs. If you want to really help the music industry, support some small local band or something. Let's face it, both choices are very commercial - at least part of the rage money goes to charity though so that's good. That said both are basically just giving money to sony. I wasn't reffering to rfactor or anything - I personally don't rate rfactor.

Neil, graphically iracing isn't particularly all that - the reason it works if because of the amount of detail put into the tracks, which do look very impressive. In terms of how the engine can look graphically, it's by no means cutting edge - but then that comes of trying to extend an old engine.

The rest i agree with - i have not bought a starforce game and don't intend to.

H E L L O

Hmm sorry i meant that to truly protest over the music industry you should not be buying either of those songs. If you want to really help the music industry, support some small local band or something. Let's face it, both choices are very commercial - at least part of the rage money goes to charity though so that's good. That said both are basically just giving money to sony. I wasn't reffering to rfactor or anything - I personally don't rate rfactor.

I'm not going through this again, so I'll just say the basics - we know. We are all aware they are both commercial, and not only that, but the same record label. The protest had nothing to do with music being commercial, just 1 practice by 1 person.

The amount of people that are missing the point of that protest and looking far too far into it and finding stuff (such as the irony of the song, the commercialism, and the record labels) that is completely irrelevant is unbelievable.

*sigh* I'm off to bed.

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Daniel Knott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Neil, graphically iracing isn't particularly all
> that - the reason it works if because of the
> amount of detail put into the tracks, which do
> look very impressive. In terms of how the engine
> can look graphically, it's by no means cutting
> edge - but then that comes of trying to extend an
> old engine.
>
> The rest i agree with - i have not bought a
> starforce game and don't intend to.


okay i understand, but imo its still prettier than rfactor will ever be.

Still you didnt comment on your immoral pricing comment....

@ Neil - My online handle is Morbid. Do you think it concerns me, whether or not I am dark inside? Am I really to understand that you are worried for my soul? Please...

Furthermore, if your respect is conditional of not having opinions you disagree with, you can keep it. I don't want it. That is nothing more than thinly veiled attempts at manipulation.

Where Dave at least has something intelligent to say, you present absolutely no content worth any kind of consideration. Instead you really think that the threat of losing (or rather the threat of gaining) your respect will make me change my mind. You really have a very inflated sense of self-importance. Why don't you turn the mirror, take a long hard look, and get over yourself?


@ Dave. Well I am sorry if I disappoint you. It would not be the first time, and it is most likely not the last. I am not Saint Francis of Assisi either, so if you want me as a friend, you will have to live with my failings as a human being. And it would also seem, that I am not alone in taking well meant messages the wrong way either.

I don't understand why you think I am defending myself. I pleaded guilty. That is not a defense. Do I think your sellout is worse than mine? Well, to be frank... I do. I don't buy your argument that a boycott is 100% or nothing.

If that was true, then if I boycott some issue, and I end up giving them a cent, I might as well give them a million dollars? If I buy some product made with child-labour in India, I might as well go to the sweatshop, sign up to be a slavemaster and beat them up and kill them off myself? I don't see that to be true. By purchasing their product, I do so by proxy, yes granted.

But there are levels and grades of complicity. Do to the nature of western democratic capitalism, I have a small degree of complicity in almost everything. Just buying food without supporting something bad is almost impossible. But that doesn't make me throw all abandon into the wind, and revel in it, just because "the product is good".

I do think what iRacing has done is worse than what Starforce do. Destroying peoples lives is worse than destroying their computer. iRacing tried to destroy lives deliberately. Starforce might destroy computers, but it as an unintended side-effect, not the main purpose of action.

There is a big difference, both in lives versus computers, and in intended purpose and unintended side-effect. Furthermore, what I have done gives Protection Technology cents on the dollar. I don't promote them, and even if I did, I would not have any material gain from doing so. I don't even think their product is good. Can you say the same for iRacing?

This is my honest opinion. I think it is important to keep the story of their transgressions alive in the collective memory of the community. I am sorry if you don't agree. I didn't say my piece with the intent to offend - and certainly not to offend YOU. But as so often happens for me with people on this forum, my intent offends anyway.


EDIT: Removed the random ' \ 's that my work computer saw fit to add to the text.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 04:17PM by Morbid.

Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Neil - My online handle is Morbid. Do you think
> it concerns me, whether or not I am dark inside?
> Am I really to understand that you are worried for
> my soul? Please...
>
> Furthermore, if your respect is conditional of not
> having opinions you disagree with, you can keep
> it. I don\'t want it. That is nothing more than
> thinly veiled attempts at manipulation.
>
> Where Dave at least has something intelligent to
> say, you present absolutely no content worth any
> kind of consideration. Instead you really think
> that the threat of losing (or rather the threat of
> gaining) your respect will make me change my mind.
> You really have a very inflated sense of
> self-importance. Why don\'t you turn the mirror,
> take a long hard look, and get over yourself?
>
your right.

sorry oh dark one, i wont speak again.

NeilPearson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sorry oh dark one, i wont speak again.

Thank you. That will be all.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

So Mortal, can you brake now?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2010 04:10PM by Guimengo.

It's a lot better, but I'm seriously crap.

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[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central

Do I think your sellout is worse than mine? Well, to be frank... I do.

Then there is nothing more for me to say, so I respectfully bow out.

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Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NeilPearson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > sorry oh dark one, i wont speak again.
>
> Thank you. That will be all.


Fail

LOL, one of the best thread hijacks I've seen in a while.

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[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central