The Lisbon Treaty

Go Alesi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another problem we have in England is that a lot
> of people are (unjustifiably) anti the human
> rights regime. Unfortunately, because it's called
> the European Convention on Human Rights..

Oh, that thing judges always refer to when treating criminals with such ridiculous leniency, which is always mentioned when some minority doesn't get absolutely everything its own way, and which is somewhat responsible for the political correctness that frustrates the crap out of most of the population



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2009 07:58PM by salvasirignano.

Well, at the risk of going off topic:

- It has nothing to do with criminal sentencing. Judges treat them leniently because there's no room in prison, and the shift is towards community punishment.

- Yes, it is always banded about by minority groups. But just because they go on the news claiming they can use it, it doesn't mean they actually can in the end. And any human rights protection is going to benefit minority groups to an extent; you can't exclude them from it else it wouldn't be human rights protection!

- It has nothing to do with political correctness (which I agree is ridiculous). PC occurs of its own accord and is out of fear of upsetting people/being branded racist etc.

So your comment helps proves my point that the reasons a lot of people dislike the Human Rights regime for are largely unjustified.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2009 11:22AM by Go Alesi.

^

In any case, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union does not apply fully to the UK (or Poland)in the sense that (as far as I understand) parts of it cannot come into effect unless provisions for these rights are already in place in these countries...

Yep, I've read up a bit on the Treaty. The second referendum is being held here this Friday. As it is, I still am not sure which way to vote. In all likelihood, the Treaty will be passed, the latest polls suggest that 52% will vote Yes to Lisbon, 25% will vote No and 23% couldn't really give a toss. In fairness, it must be mentioned that a large part of the surge in Yes supporters has to do with people being scared that another No vote will lead to isolation in Europe and Ireland diving further into recession.

I'm still not happy with the Treaty, or at least my understanding of it. Much is made of the fact that in the areas where qualified majority voting will come into effect, a large majority is still required for new laws to come into effect, but my worry is that Ireland, being quite culturally different to most of mainland European countries, AND having a political scene that is so vehemently pro-EU anyway, could see itself being bent over and firmly shafted in having to bring in laws that nobody here really wants. I hate to keep using metrification as an example, but the metric system is merely an example of how mainland Europe differs from UK and Ireland. As it was, the UK managed to avoid the dreaded kilometres, while our government signed up happily and I'm still dividing by 8 and multiplying by 5 on the roads...There are a LOT of areas where QMV is coming in instead of Unanimity, and while some make sense, some such as immigration and policing would seem to be stepping on national parliaments toes a bit. Ireland does have an opt-out on justice and policing affairs, but this only applies for 3 years, at which stage I'd fear one of the massively pro-EU main parties would opt us in on the sly.

I'll keep reading up on it during the week; it's hard to find an explanation of the treaty that isn't ridiculously vague or mired completely in legalspeak and technicalities...

As pro-EU as parties might be, don't forget that they are in the business of winning elections, and any underhand transfer of power would be an electoral no-no.

Lisbon is a treaty that reforms processes, not decisions. Voting yes is the only way to make the EU reform and become more relevant.

I hope Ireland votes Yes.



RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)

IT seems to have been passed. No official results yet, but it looks like a 2:1 majority for the Yes side. EU can now go about their business.

Good job, my southern friends! You made the right decision.

Well done Ireland!



RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)