tony blair
Posted by rapid_f1
You know one reason why lots of Polish people came here? Because the building trade called out for them - they work hard, get a job done on time, and on budget.
From the people in the industry that I have spoken to, they are preferred over British builders in this regard. If lots of Polish builders coming here are doing a good job, it is surely a good thing if it forces British workers to get off their arse and actually do a good job?
Without immigrants from Poland, for example, we won't have the Olympics finished, for one, and as much as we won't admit it, there are many jobs that immigrants do that we wouldn't touch.
Restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians are much tougher than those from Poland.
RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)
From the people in the industry that I have spoken to, they are preferred over British builders in this regard. If lots of Polish builders coming here are doing a good job, it is surely a good thing if it forces British workers to get off their arse and actually do a good job?
Without immigrants from Poland, for example, we won't have the Olympics finished, for one, and as much as we won't admit it, there are many jobs that immigrants do that we wouldn't touch.
Restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians are much tougher than those from Poland.
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)
LS. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its times like these you have to admire Australia
Here here!
(a certain shipfull of Lebanese and a beach spring to mind. Australians are stuff of legends!!)
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its times like these you have to admire Australia
Here here!
(a certain shipfull of Lebanese and a beach spring to mind. Australians are stuff of legends!!)
Red Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know one reason why lots of Polish people came
> here? Because the building trade called out for
> them - they work hard, get a job done on time, and
> on budget.
I have to agree on that one too, Polish workers in particular are stunningly good in the building trade. They work long hours, accurately and with little fuss. They actually work.
What bothers me personally, and I assume most others, is the abuse of such a system where our tax money is paying for immigrants to take up on local council house estates, and bung hundreds in one community so that the area is plagued with one ethncity.
It frightens us to mix with them as theyre all clustered, and also fuels then to feel that are being single out and isolated. Lots of hatred builds up from nothing and all hell breaks lose.
Examples? Watford. Luton. Birmingham. Hemel Hempstead.
As well as that, they get everything pretty much paid for, they then send their children to schools where British citizens attend only to find that the kids do not even speak english. Teachers spend 90% of their time teaching the language of english from square one to immigrants as opposed to improving grammar and advanced literacy and numeracy of the genuine British citizens who ARE paying their tax money for education they simply aren't getting.
Many of these immigrant families sponge off of the government, off of us. We are losing not just tax money for our childrens education, but we are at the expense of others who can't even be bothered to learn or help. Immigrant families who are so ignorant to even learn our own language, yet shout at teachers and british people for not helping them enough. It angers me. Or what about the crime, beacuse these immigrants don't even bother to attend school, so live a life of crime in the streets, terrorizing the rest of us.
Don't even get me started on the Romanian gypsies in caravans. They breed quicker than staphylococcus. They ARE trouble. Freeloading sponges to the highest degree.
I am not an extremeist. I am not nasty. I certainly do not promote the BNP is any way. I am also not targetting anyone who works for labour specifically, but instead the government as a whole. Reponses can be all willy nilly about stats and facts, but unless you are an actual teacher in an actual school with these children then you cannot argue against such a point without reason.
My mum works in a school and many of my friends' parents. The level of literacy is appauling, as Muks has also said about the current younger generation a few weeks back with his niece or cousin I think it was. I totally agree with him! It's terribly shocking.
Now I am not targetting immigrants as the cause. There is a lot more. Other factors and alike. However, immigrants are a large part of it. In a class of 24 children, would you believe that 10 of them were purely white christians of Britian with a pair of British parents.
The remaining 14 were from romanian descent, bulgarian, bosnian, lebanese, iraqi, bangladeshi, pakistani and all sorts. Many of them had parents that didnt even speak english. God knows how they got them into the school to begin with.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2006 04:15PM by danm.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know one reason why lots of Polish people came
> here? Because the building trade called out for
> them - they work hard, get a job done on time, and
> on budget.
I have to agree on that one too, Polish workers in particular are stunningly good in the building trade. They work long hours, accurately and with little fuss. They actually work.
What bothers me personally, and I assume most others, is the abuse of such a system where our tax money is paying for immigrants to take up on local council house estates, and bung hundreds in one community so that the area is plagued with one ethncity.
It frightens us to mix with them as theyre all clustered, and also fuels then to feel that are being single out and isolated. Lots of hatred builds up from nothing and all hell breaks lose.
Examples? Watford. Luton. Birmingham. Hemel Hempstead.
As well as that, they get everything pretty much paid for, they then send their children to schools where British citizens attend only to find that the kids do not even speak english. Teachers spend 90% of their time teaching the language of english from square one to immigrants as opposed to improving grammar and advanced literacy and numeracy of the genuine British citizens who ARE paying their tax money for education they simply aren't getting.
Many of these immigrant families sponge off of the government, off of us. We are losing not just tax money for our childrens education, but we are at the expense of others who can't even be bothered to learn or help. Immigrant families who are so ignorant to even learn our own language, yet shout at teachers and british people for not helping them enough. It angers me. Or what about the crime, beacuse these immigrants don't even bother to attend school, so live a life of crime in the streets, terrorizing the rest of us.
Don't even get me started on the Romanian gypsies in caravans. They breed quicker than staphylococcus. They ARE trouble. Freeloading sponges to the highest degree.
I am not an extremeist. I am not nasty. I certainly do not promote the BNP is any way. I am also not targetting anyone who works for labour specifically, but instead the government as a whole. Reponses can be all willy nilly about stats and facts, but unless you are an actual teacher in an actual school with these children then you cannot argue against such a point without reason.
My mum works in a school and many of my friends' parents. The level of literacy is appauling, as Muks has also said about the current younger generation a few weeks back with his niece or cousin I think it was. I totally agree with him! It's terribly shocking.
Now I am not targetting immigrants as the cause. There is a lot more. Other factors and alike. However, immigrants are a large part of it. In a class of 24 children, would you believe that 10 of them were purely white christians of Britian with a pair of British parents.
The remaining 14 were from romanian descent, bulgarian, bosnian, lebanese, iraqi, bangladeshi, pakistani and all sorts. Many of them had parents that didnt even speak english. God knows how they got them into the school to begin with.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2006 04:15PM by danm.
rapid you are right too, there are much more British citizen 'bums' like this, I apologise if it looks like I have targetted only the unworking immigrants - I didn't mean it was solely them! Sorry!
But I do think that the lowered care for our nation and the lack of a backbone is being caused by this dilution of BRITISH British citizens, and that is another reason why this 'chav' generation is becoming iconic to this country. Nobody or any group is large enough to represent the UK anymore as it is so diverse - except the large 'lowlife' culture that are the Vicky Pollards.
I remember in the 80's and early 90's when the UK stereotype was still the posh talking toff - the Margaret Thatchers among us. Where did they go?
I know we are a multicultural society, but ever since we get banned from flying our own nations flag on our national holiday, or showing support for our football team in a WORLD cup I can only shudder and shake my head.
Out country is rapidly losing it's identity as we are becoming a mix of mixes. British doesn't mean as much as it once did. That isn't about some silly being on a high horse. It's is about being proud of what we have - and right now I can think of just a pinch of good things I feel our country represents.
It is nice to have such a diverse nation, but at the same time, we are actually losing our own appeal for every new culture we begin to accept. It is wonderful to boast indians and romanians living among us, but what happened to OUR backbone? When do we stand up for ourselves and say hang on, Fish and Chips is British - not Lentis and Blackbean Soup.
That is why I appreciate Australia - they have a controlled immigration system. They punish the lowlifes in their country and the dole system is not as kind as it is here. In Australia, you work!
Going back to the boat and Lebanese incident - yes it was cruel to do what they did, but they had a backbone and said no. And no meant no.
Britian needs this - to stick up for themselves and learn to say enough really is enough.
- Get rid of the dole, anyone can do a job of some sort even the most disabled people can. There are clearly some exceptions. If you don't work/contribute in some form, you should receive NOTHING.
- People currently on the dole because they cannot get a job? RUBBISH! Work for the council. Litter pick. Clean up the country. Patrol the local area for crime. There are many simple communial social activities that require little training. Get them off their backsides and help the country for the better.
- Force teenagers who leave school with four options: college, sixth form, an apprenticeship / job or the Armed Forces. We have seen bad lads army works. Not necessarily sending them to war, but military service will teach them manners, obidience and control. Cyrpus is a brilliant example of this, having to have just 18 months in the army and their youths are extremely polite and well mannered.
It stops chavs doing nothing and causing havoc - and it leaves the rest of us free of fear in our own nation.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2006 04:34PM by danm.
But I do think that the lowered care for our nation and the lack of a backbone is being caused by this dilution of BRITISH British citizens, and that is another reason why this 'chav' generation is becoming iconic to this country. Nobody or any group is large enough to represent the UK anymore as it is so diverse - except the large 'lowlife' culture that are the Vicky Pollards.
I remember in the 80's and early 90's when the UK stereotype was still the posh talking toff - the Margaret Thatchers among us. Where did they go?
I know we are a multicultural society, but ever since we get banned from flying our own nations flag on our national holiday, or showing support for our football team in a WORLD cup I can only shudder and shake my head.
Out country is rapidly losing it's identity as we are becoming a mix of mixes. British doesn't mean as much as it once did. That isn't about some silly being on a high horse. It's is about being proud of what we have - and right now I can think of just a pinch of good things I feel our country represents.
It is nice to have such a diverse nation, but at the same time, we are actually losing our own appeal for every new culture we begin to accept. It is wonderful to boast indians and romanians living among us, but what happened to OUR backbone? When do we stand up for ourselves and say hang on, Fish and Chips is British - not Lentis and Blackbean Soup.
That is why I appreciate Australia - they have a controlled immigration system. They punish the lowlifes in their country and the dole system is not as kind as it is here. In Australia, you work!
Going back to the boat and Lebanese incident - yes it was cruel to do what they did, but they had a backbone and said no. And no meant no.
Britian needs this - to stick up for themselves and learn to say enough really is enough.
- Get rid of the dole, anyone can do a job of some sort even the most disabled people can. There are clearly some exceptions. If you don't work/contribute in some form, you should receive NOTHING.
- People currently on the dole because they cannot get a job? RUBBISH! Work for the council. Litter pick. Clean up the country. Patrol the local area for crime. There are many simple communial social activities that require little training. Get them off their backsides and help the country for the better.
- Force teenagers who leave school with four options: college, sixth form, an apprenticeship / job or the Armed Forces. We have seen bad lads army works. Not necessarily sending them to war, but military service will teach them manners, obidience and control. Cyrpus is a brilliant example of this, having to have just 18 months in the army and their youths are extremely polite and well mannered.
It stops chavs doing nothing and causing havoc - and it leaves the rest of us free of fear in our own nation.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2006 04:34PM by danm.
Rapid, i know full well that there are lots of British people who are freeloaders and sponge off the state, and that is also the governments fault for giving them benefits when they aren't even trying to get jobs.
as has been said, immigrants do the jobs we don't want to, but while they do it, many of our own countryfolk then complain saying "they've taken all our jobs". so they didn't want to do them when they were available, but complain about it afterwards as if they're the victim.
so, we have enough lazy bums here already, we don't need any more, so more stringent checks need to be done to bring in skilled workers in the areas we need them (construction, nursing, whatever) and make sure those who just want benefits and a free house don't get in.
i may be wrong, but in Australia they don't just give you benefits and free healthcare because you ask for it, you have to prove you're trying to get work, and show you can't pay for the services yourself, so deserve to be supported by the state, or else you can bog off.
here it's the other way round, if you work you get taxed to hell and have to scrimp and save your cash so you can pay for everything, yet if you're on benefits, you live a life of luxury and don't have a care in the world, just spend spend spend.
Ali G said it perfectly in his interview with Tony Benn, he said "if a young girl sees something nice in a shop, she thinks to herself, "is me gonna get me a job, or is me gonna get jiggy with Mr Biggy", cos she can have a couple of kids to then get benefits to pay for the item she wants".
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
as has been said, immigrants do the jobs we don't want to, but while they do it, many of our own countryfolk then complain saying "they've taken all our jobs". so they didn't want to do them when they were available, but complain about it afterwards as if they're the victim.
so, we have enough lazy bums here already, we don't need any more, so more stringent checks need to be done to bring in skilled workers in the areas we need them (construction, nursing, whatever) and make sure those who just want benefits and a free house don't get in.
i may be wrong, but in Australia they don't just give you benefits and free healthcare because you ask for it, you have to prove you're trying to get work, and show you can't pay for the services yourself, so deserve to be supported by the state, or else you can bog off.
here it's the other way round, if you work you get taxed to hell and have to scrimp and save your cash so you can pay for everything, yet if you're on benefits, you live a life of luxury and don't have a care in the world, just spend spend spend.
Ali G said it perfectly in his interview with Tony Benn, he said "if a young girl sees something nice in a shop, she thinks to herself, "is me gonna get me a job, or is me gonna get jiggy with Mr Biggy", cos she can have a couple of kids to then get benefits to pay for the item she wants".
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
the "don't say Christmas" or "don't fly the flag" definitely comes from the PC bridage and do-gooders and politicians with nothing better to do.
it's like they are warning people not to do it before they do it, just in case anyone is offended, instead of the more common-sense idea that if someone is offended, they will complain, after which there can be a debate about it and then action can be taken if needed.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
it's like they are warning people not to do it before they do it, just in case anyone is offended, instead of the more common-sense idea that if someone is offended, they will complain, after which there can be a debate about it and then action can be taken if needed.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Muks, from personal experience, when it does happen, it comes from Council workers with too much time on their hands, and in 99% of reported cases (just like the "we cant have Christmas" stories that come every year) it is a fabrication or distortion of the truth.
RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)
yeah i understand there is distortion from the press/media, not much we can do about that unfortunately.
but i will say that if anyone is insulted by things like Christmas, in a country such as ours, (a traditionally Christian country) then they shouldn't live here, and i say that as a someone born to immigrant parents, so don't get the wrong idea, i'm not being xenophobic or nationalistic.
it's like an English man going to India and being offended when there are Hindu or Sikh festivals, it's stupid to think that way, so don't live or go there then.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
but i will say that if anyone is insulted by things like Christmas, in a country such as ours, (a traditionally Christian country) then they shouldn't live here, and i say that as a someone born to immigrant parents, so don't get the wrong idea, i'm not being xenophobic or nationalistic.
it's like an English man going to India and being offended when there are Hindu or Sikh festivals, it's stupid to think that way, so don't live or go there then.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
You might like this article from Decembers Guardian:
[www.guardian.co.uk]
RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)
[www.guardian.co.uk]
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)
Mark Santer... >_<
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
not long now to the election
nice one Gareth. for you it was difficult to go on the dole, but easier to find a job. here, it's completely the other way round!
the way i understand the immigration system of your country, if you can't contribute anything to the country, you can't come in.
my uncle emmigrated first in around 1985. he's in construction or something, people go to him and the company he works for with a design of a house, he then calculates how much they can build it for them, or something like that. his wife is a radiographer. my other uncle worked for BAE Systems here, checking components for plane wings. my other uncle was a carpenter. they, plus many more relatives, all emmigrated to Aus through the years (basically all my dads family, just him left in England now).
they all had a skill in something or other, so were accepted to live and work in Aus, and aren't sponging off the state.
here though, you just run through the channel tunnel and climb over the fence, and you're in!
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
the way i understand the immigration system of your country, if you can't contribute anything to the country, you can't come in.
my uncle emmigrated first in around 1985. he's in construction or something, people go to him and the company he works for with a design of a house, he then calculates how much they can build it for them, or something like that. his wife is a radiographer. my other uncle worked for BAE Systems here, checking components for plane wings. my other uncle was a carpenter. they, plus many more relatives, all emmigrated to Aus through the years (basically all my dads family, just him left in England now).
they all had a skill in something or other, so were accepted to live and work in Aus, and aren't sponging off the state.
here though, you just run through the channel tunnel and climb over the fence, and you're in!
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Red Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know one reason why lots of Polish people came
> here? Because the building trade called out for
> them - they work hard, get a job done on time, and
> on budget.
>
> From the people in the industry that I have spoken
> to, they are preferred over British builders in
> this regard. If lots of Polish builders coming
> here are doing a good job, it is surely a good
> thing if it forces British workers to get off
> their arse and actually do a good job?
>
> Without immigrants from Poland, for example, we
> won't have the Olympics finished, for one, and as
> much as we won't admit it, there are many jobs
> that immigrants do that we wouldn't touch.
>
> Restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians are much
> tougher than those from Poland.
So what happens when a lot of british bricklayers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers get under cut and put out of work by new tradesmen that are used to working for a lot less money?
They have a higher standard of living to support than these new immgrants do ( and most of them send the money back home) so the british workers end up either on a barely minimum wage or out of work.
how does that help anyone?
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know one reason why lots of Polish people came
> here? Because the building trade called out for
> them - they work hard, get a job done on time, and
> on budget.
>
> From the people in the industry that I have spoken
> to, they are preferred over British builders in
> this regard. If lots of Polish builders coming
> here are doing a good job, it is surely a good
> thing if it forces British workers to get off
> their arse and actually do a good job?
>
> Without immigrants from Poland, for example, we
> won't have the Olympics finished, for one, and as
> much as we won't admit it, there are many jobs
> that immigrants do that we wouldn't touch.
>
> Restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians are much
> tougher than those from Poland.
So what happens when a lot of british bricklayers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers get under cut and put out of work by new tradesmen that are used to working for a lot less money?
They have a higher standard of living to support than these new immgrants do ( and most of them send the money back home) so the british workers end up either on a barely minimum wage or out of work.
how does that help anyone?
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
we had an extension built over the summer last year (well it started in March, should have been finished in May, but sort of was completed in September). 6 months to build an extension, you can build a whole house in that time!
when we agreed the contract the builder said someone would be here every day, and it'd be done in 6-8 weeks, 10 if the weather disrupted things.
they'd come on some days, then not turn up for days on end. we'd ring him, he wouldn't answer his phone. the weather was good, so they'd not come to work, but spend the day drinking or sunbathing or whatever. his money was here ready for him to collect it, but he couldn't be arsed half the time to come to do the job, even though he had been highly recommended by others.
then he'd eventually turn up and give the same old story and say sorry, then work for a few days, then bugger off again. he'd taken on so many jobs, he didn't have enough workers to be on all of them at the same time.
now if he had had more workers, be they foreign or not, we'd have benefitted, and not been left hanging on for so long.
LS, maybe the answer is that the Polish builders need to be employed by our own building firms, to make up the shortcomings in the number of builders available at any one time, rather than them coming here and setting up their own building firm?
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
when we agreed the contract the builder said someone would be here every day, and it'd be done in 6-8 weeks, 10 if the weather disrupted things.
they'd come on some days, then not turn up for days on end. we'd ring him, he wouldn't answer his phone. the weather was good, so they'd not come to work, but spend the day drinking or sunbathing or whatever. his money was here ready for him to collect it, but he couldn't be arsed half the time to come to do the job, even though he had been highly recommended by others.
then he'd eventually turn up and give the same old story and say sorry, then work for a few days, then bugger off again. he'd taken on so many jobs, he didn't have enough workers to be on all of them at the same time.
now if he had had more workers, be they foreign or not, we'd have benefitted, and not been left hanging on for so long.
LS, maybe the answer is that the Polish builders need to be employed by our own building firms, to make up the shortcomings in the number of builders available at any one time, rather than them coming here and setting up their own building firm?
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Sounds like Wembley (being 'done' by Aussie slackers 
)
)gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like Wembley (being 'done' by Aussie
> slackers)
We'll get around to it one day!
(It's already about two years behind schedule isn't it? And about twice the price?)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like Wembley (being 'done' by Aussie
> slackers
)We'll get around to it one day!
(It's already about two years behind schedule isn't it? And about twice the price?)
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