ATi set to blow nVidia away?

ATi announce their new X1800XT with mind blowing specs:



- Powered by ATI Radeon R520XT GPU running at 625MHz
- Based on 0.09 micron manufacturing process
- 16 ultra efficient extreme pipelines
- 512MB GDDR3 Memory running at 1500MHz
- 256-Bit lightning fast memory interface (512-bit Ringbus)
- 8 Vertex Shaders/Geometry Pipelines
- Memory Bandwidth - 48GB/sec
- Fill Rate - 10.00 billion pixels/sec
- Vertex and Pixel Shader Version 3.0
- 10-bit Native Display Quality for future LCD technology
- ATI® Crossfire

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AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1024mb PC3200 GeIL Goldern Dragon RAM, ATi Sapphire X800 256mb, Windows XP

id like to know what exactly they mean by "ultra efficient extreme" pipelines? and if 16 of those is better than nvidia's 24.


if it is better than yeah the x1800xt is gonna be a better card by far.higher clock speed, 512mb ram (compared to 256mb on gtx and i hear nvidia is not planning a 512mb version) and now especially since it has SM 3.0 support i totally expect it to be better than the 7800gtx hands down. its gonna be really pricey though. i wouldnt think about getting one till atleast next spring when the prices are more sane.

ah by the way there is a nice review of the x1800 series up on tech report now

[www.techreport.com]

actually puts those numbers to some sense

The card is on balance slightly quicker than the 7800GTX (nvidia's best). But look at the prices.

XL = £323 (Nvidia's GT: £252ish)
XT = £~450 (Nvidia's GTX: £328)

Coupled with the XL being unavailable (though launched) and the XT not officially out until next month, again with zero availability, forget it. They'lldrop their prices a bit, but those high clockspeeds on the cores mean they are harder to produce successfully than the 7800, so more expensive per unit.

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It'll blow them away....until the nVidia one comes out and everyone goes "OMFG Teh w00t!" and then thinks nVidia will blow them away, then ATI will respond with another uber card costing more than most PCs with no real performance gain and is only there so geeks can measure there ePenis size. Then nVidia will produce another uber card with slightly higher specs, alot of big words and an even bigger price tag (and therefore, a larger ePenis) and the cycle continues

Same as always.

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qwerty ur right the price of the x1800xt doesnt justify its advantage over the 7800 gtx...for now. its bound to come down in a few months like the gt and gtx series have done.

@dave - ati has been doin this pretty much since the days of the 9600 series. nvidia comes out with something...a few months later ati does the same thing only better and ends up leapfrogging nvidia, till nvidia comes out with somethng new. nvidia...the perennial underdog.

are you serious? Nvidia have always been on top, with one exception - the 9700 / 9800 series. They caused 3Dfx to give up / go bust, then bought up their intellectual rights, then they beat ATI solidly until the 9700 pro, then they beat them since.

Nvidia haven't really ever been a real underdog.

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But they've never really had an enormous advantage, if you consider the 6800 Ultra to be the competitor to the X850XT PE.

nV have pulled away a little recently overall, while ATI tend to be better when AA and AF is used, but it's always down to the game in question.

I think I'm going to wait until theirs a great Crossfire mobo that comes out (ASUS or DFI probably) then pair an X1800XT Crossfire with my current X800XT... or I'll wait until DX10 spec cards start out, if my X800XT can hold it's own until then. I'm in no hurry.

Initial previews weren't exactly glowing about the X1800XT, where it really struggled, but I'll have a look at some when the drivers have settled down, as it's a bit unfair on both nV and ATI to compair them at the moment.

imho, ati's crossfire is using the wrong aproach. you need to buy a "master card" then a "slave card" for it to work, with nv's you just grab 2 nv cards and yay

But with the ATI approach you can utilise an existing card. You don't need 2 identical cards, or even from the same manufacturer.

you dont need to 2 identicle cards with the new nv drivers (damn this is the 1st time im defending nvidia)

Really? Didn't know that :O

So you can couple a 7800GTX with a 6600GT? :|

-qwerty- Wrote:
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> are you serious? Nvidia have always been on top,
> with one exception - the 9700 / 9800 series. They
> caused 3Dfx to give up / go bust, then bought up
> their intellectual rights, then they beat ATI
> solidly until the 9700 pro, then they beat them
> since.


yeah im dead serious. nvidia havent really been on top since ati thrashed them with the 9000 series (9600-9700-9800 range of cards)
nvidias 5000 series was a big disaster. They made big improvements with the 6000 series, but ATi again came along (albeit a bit later) with the x850 series and beat them again. the 6800ultra (nvidias top 6000 series card) doesnt really match the x850xtpe in anything other than doom 3. nvidia really is only on top when they release something new...until ati knocks them out with a counterpunch soon after. with the 7000 series its a bit early to say i think. i thought nvidia was planning a 7800ultra card which would rival the x1800xt, but im not sure if theyre still going ahead with that. if not, then this round (like it has been for the past few years) will go to ati once again.

by the way when i said underdogs, i didnt mean about back in the 3dfx days. i mean ever since their geforce 4 series was launched until present day.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2005 02:54AM by Karan19.

Just upgraded my card and now i will have to do it again

i got the Geforce 6800 GT it's pretty damm funky in all games

what game will use all that power but i manily play GP4, all the battlefield games and anyhting with Star Wars in it and they all work super with the current card

if i was to buy this new card would i notice a freakish difference?

The Thunder from Downunder

Karan, I'm not surew how you come to the conclusion ATI have won this round.

The X1800XT was supposed to be out in august, at the latest. It got held back, and back, and still wont be out until november. And guess what? There are no cards! There are about 10 XTs in the entire WORLD right now, and nvidia have thousands of 7800 gtx.

Its not only about outright performance, its the whole package. Nvidia had stock on the shelves on release day, and plenty of it. ATI havent any stock at all, because they had to max out their core so much to keep up with nvidia. Also we could talk about the disaster of crossfire. Firstly ATI clearly had no idea nvidia planned SLI, and were caught completely with their trousers down, and not even the beginnings of a reply - crossfire was a rushed job from the start.

Also this generation (the X850) of crossfire cards are limited to 60hz refresh rate when using a 1600x1200 resolution. Not a problem you might think - but the people who buy this stuff are hardcore gamers, they'll have the best monitors. That's a REALissue.

The x800 series wasnt *quite* as good as the 6800 - look at the fact that they released the XT, and then very quickly released the XT PE, which was just a little faster than the ultra. But then Nvidia had SLI anyway.

The 9700 range was a good one, but it was flattered by the crapnes of the FX. This has been Nvidia's only real ball - drop of recent times. The GF4 Ti's destroy the 8500.

Sure SLI wasnt perfect at first, but it is good now. Sure, the 7800 may (or may not, its too early) not be quite as fast as the x1800xt, but you can nearly buy 2 7800 GTs for the price of a xt, and the xt is over 100 quid more expensive. AND there's no stock, and crossfire is still in its infancy.

Nvidia have a Ultra waiting if necessary, but tbh they can cancel it because ATIwont even have real stock until christmas. Even with the XT out, the smart people buy the nvidia GTX.

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Erm, Qwerty, are you perhaps forgetting the 6800 Ultra debacle?

It was about 6 months before stock appeared in stores.

I agree with Karan to an extent. It's always been too and fro. ATI also lead when they released the (rather impressive) 8500, but it's always going to go back and forward. ATI had an initial overall lead over nV in the 850XT PE vs 6800 Ultra battle, but I think nV overtook them in driver developments.

No one card is better than the other. It's how you use them.

I know the 6800 Us were bad too, but both companies got slated for that, and Nvidia learnt for it, ATI didnt. That was why I didnt refer to it.

I also agre it is to and fro, but overall Nvidia have always been the larger of the two. I mean every top end card ati released before this x1800xt was just using the r300 (9700) core suped up with more pipelines and shader units, not a new design. Thats fine until you have to make a new core, and Nvidia did that with the 6800 very well, and the 7800 built on that. But the r520 (x1800xt) is brand new and they're having massive problems with it.

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-qwerty- Wrote:
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But the r520 (x1800xt)
> is brand new and they're having massive problems
> with it.

>


"Two weeks ago today, Rich Heye, VP and GM of ATI's desktop business unit, stood up in front of a room full of skeptical journalists and attempted to defuse those concerns. The problem with R520, he told us, with neither a snag caused by TSMC's 90nm process tech nor a fundamental design issue."

I wouldnt say thats a massive problem. It probably sounds massive just cause of the long delay. But the card has only JUST been launched this week. Surely you dont expect it to hit the shelves the very next day? This isnt some Harry Potter book.

By the way I've been an nvidia user so I'm not biased towards aTI or anything. But the Geforce4 series really was bad. I couldnt believe the gains I got when I switched over to the 9600 pro. Dont need to say much about the 5000 series,utter disaster. As for the 6000 series...well whats there to say when the x800xl even comes close to matching the 6800ultra in quite a few games?

As for when i meant ATI has won this round, I just meant in terms of performance. Considering price and availability is another issue. honestly if I had to get a card today it would probably be the 7800GT just because of its price and availablity. But if someone is looking for the top performing card at any cost, well then it really only would be the X1800XT right?

Karan19 Wrote:
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> By the way I've been an nvidia user so I'm not
> biased towards aTI or anything. But the Geforce4
> series really was bad. I couldnt believe the gains
> I got when I switched over to the 9600 pro. Dont
> need to say much about the 5000 series,utter
> disaster. As for the 6000 series...well whats
> there to say when the x800xl even comes close to
> matching the 6800ultra in quite a few games?

The GF4 TIs were awesome... they blew the only ATI challenger (then the 8500) out of the water. They put nV back on the top, by quite some way. The MXs were aweful, but they were budget cards, so that's to be expected.

The 5000 series was truly ghastly though. They outreached themselves completely. It was a PR disaster, and probably the worst single PC nightmare since Windows ME.

BTW Qwerty, you could say nV should have learned from the 5000 series problems for the 6800 Ultras - some 5000s weren't on the shelves for up to a year I believe!

Was just gonna say about the GF4 Tis gav, they were AWESOME! Its not suprising the 9600 was better, I mean come on that's almost 2 gens newer!


And ypu can't disregard the 6000s just like that, especially when the ati new card, the x1800xl is slower than the 7800GT and 100 quid more expensive.

Gav, I know the 5000s were late too, my point is actually a more general one - with the exception of the 5000s Nvidia have been the top dog.


Karan, when I say massive problems, I mean in getting stock on shelves - its so basic! With the last round, both companies were late in delivering, this round nvidia fixed that and had tons of stock on shelves LAUNCH DAY. It IS possible if you stay on top of your game to do this.

Basically ATI have ben caught out of recent - crossfire, the XT PE being necessary, woeful stock and late launch of the X1800s.

I own an ATI card, I WANT them to have stock, to be quick, to have crossfire sorted out and to not be a half step behind, but the fact is that right now they are behind. Launching late now means Nvidia have a card up their sleeves just in case th ati card is too fast, and can work on their next card.

Luckily for ati, the r580 is rather further along than it should be, and there was talk around a month back that ati might drop x1800 for the r580, as it was superior and basicaly ready. I hope the rumours are true, cos I'm all for competition


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My love’s subliminal