Is water really H 2 O? No, it's H 1,5 O
Posted by Vader
A Water Molecule's Chemical Formula is Really Not H20
[www.lns.cornell.edu]
A water molecule's chemical formula is really not H2O, at least from
the perspective of neutrons and electrons interacting with the
molecule for only attoseconds (less than 10-15 seconds). According to
new and recent experiments, neutrons and electrons colliding with
water for just attoseconds will see a ratio of hydrogen to oxygen of
roughly 1.5 to 1, so a more accurate formula for water under these
circumstances would be H1.5O. According to the experimenters (Aris
Chatzidimitriou-Dreismann, Technical University-Berlin), this "opening
of the attosecond time window" may be revealing dramatic quantum
effects that were once too short-lived to catch. Nonetheless, such
effects may revise conventional textbook notions of water and other
everyday molecules. Moreover, these experiments can provide new
insights on chemical reactions at the 100-500 attosecond scale: the
neutron and electron probes break apart the chemical bonds in
molecules, as compared to laser-based attosecond studies, which have
just ejected electrons from atoms at this point.
The story begins in 1995. At the ISIS neutron spallation facility in
the UK, a German-British collaboration collided epithermal neutrons
(those with energies of up to a few hundred electron volts) with a
target that included water molecules (Chatzidimitriou-Dreismann et
al., Physical Review Letters, 13 October 1997). Detecting the number
and energy loss of the scattered neutrons in the resulting
attosecond-scale collisions, the researchers noticed that neutrons
were scattering from 25% fewer protons than expected. Apparently, the
protons in hydrogen were sometimes "invisible" to the neutron probes.
While the exact details are still being debated by theorists, the
researchers' own theoretical considerations suggest the presence of
short-lived (sub-femtosecond) entanglement, in which protons in
adjacent hydrogen atoms (and possibly the surrounding electrons) are
all interlinked in such a way as to change the nature of the
scattering results.
Realizing that water itself has anomalous properties, the researchers
repeated the neutron experiments in other more typical molecules, for
instance in benzene (conventionally noted as C6H6). In that case, they
found that the neutrons saw a ratio of hydrogen to carbon of 4.5 to 6!
Meanwhile, this effect was also confirmed in various
hydrogen-containing metals, in a collaboration with Uppsala University
in Sweden. Now, the researchers (with new colleagues in Australia)
have decided to use an independent experimental method to verify this
effect. In experiments at Australian National University in Canberra,
the researchers used electron probes instead of neutrons, as the two
particles interact with protons via fundamentally different forces
(strong and electromagnetic interactions). Scattering electrons from a
solid polymer called formvar (with basic building block C8H14O2), they
observed the exact same shortfall in scattered electrons from hydrogen
nuclei, comparable to the shortfall of scattered neutrons in
accompanying neutron experiments on the same polymer. This supports
the earlier results on water and other systems.
****
Now, what does this mean?
In terms of chemistry water has two hydrogen ions and one oxygen ion (H 2 O). Within chemistry this is perfectly right. If physicists look at it, they only find 1,5 hydogren ions and 1 oxygen ion (H 1,5 0). That means every 4th hydrogen ion is physically not there, though chemically it is. Very strange.
REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
[www.lns.cornell.edu]
A water molecule's chemical formula is really not H2O, at least from
the perspective of neutrons and electrons interacting with the
molecule for only attoseconds (less than 10-15 seconds). According to
new and recent experiments, neutrons and electrons colliding with
water for just attoseconds will see a ratio of hydrogen to oxygen of
roughly 1.5 to 1, so a more accurate formula for water under these
circumstances would be H1.5O. According to the experimenters (Aris
Chatzidimitriou-Dreismann, Technical University-Berlin), this "opening
of the attosecond time window" may be revealing dramatic quantum
effects that were once too short-lived to catch. Nonetheless, such
effects may revise conventional textbook notions of water and other
everyday molecules. Moreover, these experiments can provide new
insights on chemical reactions at the 100-500 attosecond scale: the
neutron and electron probes break apart the chemical bonds in
molecules, as compared to laser-based attosecond studies, which have
just ejected electrons from atoms at this point.
The story begins in 1995. At the ISIS neutron spallation facility in
the UK, a German-British collaboration collided epithermal neutrons
(those with energies of up to a few hundred electron volts) with a
target that included water molecules (Chatzidimitriou-Dreismann et
al., Physical Review Letters, 13 October 1997). Detecting the number
and energy loss of the scattered neutrons in the resulting
attosecond-scale collisions, the researchers noticed that neutrons
were scattering from 25% fewer protons than expected. Apparently, the
protons in hydrogen were sometimes "invisible" to the neutron probes.
While the exact details are still being debated by theorists, the
researchers' own theoretical considerations suggest the presence of
short-lived (sub-femtosecond) entanglement, in which protons in
adjacent hydrogen atoms (and possibly the surrounding electrons) are
all interlinked in such a way as to change the nature of the
scattering results.
Realizing that water itself has anomalous properties, the researchers
repeated the neutron experiments in other more typical molecules, for
instance in benzene (conventionally noted as C6H6). In that case, they
found that the neutrons saw a ratio of hydrogen to carbon of 4.5 to 6!
Meanwhile, this effect was also confirmed in various
hydrogen-containing metals, in a collaboration with Uppsala University
in Sweden. Now, the researchers (with new colleagues in Australia)
have decided to use an independent experimental method to verify this
effect. In experiments at Australian National University in Canberra,
the researchers used electron probes instead of neutrons, as the two
particles interact with protons via fundamentally different forces
(strong and electromagnetic interactions). Scattering electrons from a
solid polymer called formvar (with basic building block C8H14O2), they
observed the exact same shortfall in scattered electrons from hydrogen
nuclei, comparable to the shortfall of scattered neutrons in
accompanying neutron experiments on the same polymer. This supports
the earlier results on water and other systems.
****
Now, what does this mean?
In terms of chemistry water has two hydrogen ions and one oxygen ion (H 2 O). Within chemistry this is perfectly right. If physicists look at it, they only find 1,5 hydogren ions and 1 oxygen ion (H 1,5 0). That means every 4th hydrogen ion is physically not there, though chemically it is. Very strange.
REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
Rrrrright.....
___________________________
Sorry guys, my forum is down.
___________________________
Sorry guys, my forum is down.
I could have that extra mark in my GCSE Physics
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did your birth certificate come with an apology letter from Durex?
oooooooooook......
H1.5 O
I'd say it's H3 O2 instead
I'd say it's H3 O2 instead
Interesting. Now I can sound like I actually know something when I'm talking to the Chem Engineers at uni.
[akiro3.com]
------------
'That was a major, major sausage.' - Barry Sheene
[akiro3.com]
------------
'That was a major, major sausage.' - Barry Sheene
This is all very good Vader, but is it still safe to use this collection of neutrons and electrons to make tea with when I'm having a sticky bun?
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to.
[www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central
[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to.
[www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 CentralGod Vader!
Stop messing with my head!
"Treat others with respect and you too will be respected." Oac - ed'c dnia - E ys yldiymmo drec cyt.
Stop messing with my head!
"Treat others with respect and you too will be respected." Oac - ed'c dnia - E ys yldiymmo drec cyt.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.