Moderation - can we reach a comprimise?

This is getting way out of hand guys, and somthing needs to be done. Brunos a busy man, and im sure that he wont mind if me and Mortal try to work it out with you

so far, all i have done as a mod here is:

1) move a football topic and an off-topic thread to the OT section. does Anyone have a problem with what i have done here?

2) I deleted a double post by someone....cant remember who? Bugger! they will remind me if they see this! it was the start of a thread too! Any problems?

3) HakkinenF1 has posted alot of F1 stuff in the GP4 forum, and i didnt delete it, but simply asked him to post it in the F1 forum

Any problems with any of this?

This website is listed under googles and yahoos (and any other site which uses googles) search engine. Therefore, if anyone posts abuse then google will find it. That looks good for this site doesnt it?

This forum RARELY gets abuse, but when it does it cope's well. But the fact is that the abuse stays, and is always there. Giving one or two people the functions to remove it, cant be a bad thing can it? Deleting abuse?

Spam - anything in the OT forum, can not really be called Spam - unless it was Sveps style and was 500 posts about school. this shouldnt be allowed, for obvious reasons.

Remember, the more space that is taken up, the more money the forum costs to host. This was a MOJOR problem over at high gear, and still is. They have lots of forums and some attachements too. Therefore there forum is getting to big to pay for and they are taking action.

This is what we are trying to stop here. Cut down problems before they grow.

About posts in the wrong forums:

WE were the ones who requested an OT forum. And Bruno and stefan were kind enough to give us one. We should thank them for that, which i belive we did stright away. But then why are we getting OT posts in the other forums? Why did we request an OT forum, then not use it correctly?

Unless you post abuse or sheer spam in the wrong forum, NOTHING WILL BE DELETED. I cant think of any other reason why it would be deleted

Posts will only be moved if THEY ARE IN THE WRONG FORUM.

Double Posts can be deleted if they are unment.

We are NOT stopping freedom of speach, but everyplace needs rules and regualtions, and these are the ones for this place. I repeat, we are NOT stopping freespeach. That is what this forum is all about, and always has been. If it wasnt, then your psots woudl all be gone. But fact is they are not, because we want freedom of speach here.

Please do give me your thoughts



Post Edited (02-17-03 15:05)


Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

With all due respect (no pun or sarcastic remark intended), I think that it is quite hard to get the input you need on this here, since the protagonists are on erm... leave of absence. On the other hand, maybe somebody else will speak up for a change.

Anyway, I guess that they can read it, and could email you or talk with you over MSN on the basis of this thread.



Post Edited (02-17-03 15:05)

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I totally agree with everything you said and give mederation the covfan thumbs up.

If they want to still boycott, i asked them to stop for this ONE thread. They may boycott the rest of the forum if they wish, but i asked them to post in this ONE thread so we can sort things. Otherwise we will enver get anywhere.

Asking for Moderators to be taken away is kinda "selfish" if you like. - I want this, and it will happen. but then again, mods without a comprimise is just as bad. Thats why im trying to force a comprimise here




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Dave I talked to you on MSN about this.

For me, its more a problem of hierachy. There is a kind of unspoken hierachy in here, bruno then older members then newer members. This does not stop everyone having a valid opinion, and we all listen to each others opinions.

However, I'm worried that with the moderators' power to delete, move and edit posts, this right to say what we want is gone. Ok, its not freedom of speech in the true political sense, but if our posts are edited and deleted our thoughts are not read, hence f.o.s. goes out the window.

Now I'm not saying this will happen. But there is a clear distinction in hierachy between bruno+stefan and the forum members. With moderators introduced the line is blurred.

I suggested to you that
1) OT discussions are kept to OT only.
2) Moderators are removed.

If the only reason for the mod is to keep this place tidy, we can sweep up ourselves. I know this post kinda turns on itself in places but there are two sides to every arguement, and I know your side is perfectly logical arguement, I just don't agree with it.



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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

As you know Dave I feel the same as Qwerty (chris) - like I said to you if there have been issues in here we have all acted as collective mods and tidied it up ourselves, we dont need people that have their names in bold to start doing it, because like he says it will lead to a hierachy problem.

No matter what you say, the moderation status still makes you seem above us all, which is a shame cos at the end of the day you are one of us



Visit my website [www.mrears.com]

No matter what you say, the moderation status still makes you seem above us all, which is a shame cos at the end of the day you are one of us

tis true, and im not jealous, but it is true

I have no problem with the moderation personally, but would having Ellis and mortal's names in regular type do anything to improve the situation.

I can't see either of them doing anything outrageous, deleting threads unreasonably or anything.

It will get rid of double posts, and any racist, or unacceptable posts like those we have had in the past.

I understand the need for people to have free speech, and to want this, but, Ellis and Mortal aren't going to delete anything which is an opinion, unless it is excesively abussive or derogatory(sp?).

Baz

i am going to break my silence on this thread just for the good of this forum.


and thats what we are trying to do. we are not trying to put you ellis or mortalwombat down. i just feel that its in the best interest of this forum for mods to be near to or non existant.yes bruno and stephan are and have always been mods. they have always had a good grip on this forum. so what if they dont have the time to moderate the forum? its not like as if we need constant watching 24 hours a day. bruno and stephan have always deleted or at least told us about nonsensical posts. i only ever remember 2 ppl who have mildly and lets face it, it wasnt a BIG bust up or anything, upseted this forum : daveb and matic. david ballard has voiced his idiotic view of this world and we as equal forum members have told him together than his idiotic views are not welcome in this forum. now daveb is, imo , a well respected member. he has in recent times after his infamous posts contributed well to this forum and has helped many newbies. he hasnt, well i dont think so anyway, talked about his artificial views since.

we as a forum also told matic to grow up and duely we have succeeded. we work well on this forum. it is the best forum i kno because it is "different". it has a humourous and warm atmosphere which does not need to b changed. yes we get spam but whats a forum without it? it adds to the flavour of this original forum. we together have grown as a tight community and i wld say that i have spoken to and gotten to kno most of the ppl in this forum during my 3 1/2 to 4 years here. lately we have been getting alot of ppl from alpha f1. from the posts i have read they fins this forum more friendlier and better than alpha. why? the members of this forum are very close and ellis when u say we are missing alot of the" bigger names" of this forum because of this stance. but i believe that when u look @ the forums everybody seems familiar and they all seem to be regular visiters and "big names" in respect. anyway what im getting at is that this forum is different from any other forum. we do not ( used not) have mods and we didnt feel under the power of the hierarchy. now everytime i post well i fell as if someone can just swoop in and say "hey, this post isnt in relation to the topic" or " i dont like this post" and using their OWN judgement, they duely delete the post, which i find is taking the spirit and originality from this close community/forum. i am not pointing the finger @ u ellis cos i admit that if i was mod , which i do not want to be, i wld get carried away. but i feel that since u have become mod u have strayed slightly to the "superior" side.

example:

"Unfortuantly we have to null that vote so we can count properly.

so far its

100% for NO

0% for yes

I persoanlly say NO"


even though u might not think that u have, but u have already given a forum member who gave an honest and very relevant answer " a slap across the wrist" to be honest.

"But why shoudl anyone respect the decision when nobody is respecting BRUNOS decision to dow aht he has done? He gave us this forum! He has the right to take itaway without asking any one of us "


jeez calm down. dont overreact. we never said we didnt respect his decision, we just are questioning a judgement , he can make a mistake. and if we think he has made a wrong desicion we can only advise gim to chose the right one for the benifit of HIS forum. after all he is only human.


"If you dont do anyhting wrong (which 99.999999999% of the time nothing EVER goes wrong here), then you CANT and WONT be moderated.
Whats the special case about this one?
Somebody over MSN asked me to "respect there decision to boycott the forum"


99.999999999% of the time? well that doesnt mean that a huge decision of bringing mods in is going to make the forum 100%. id b quiet happy with 99.999999% and the .00000001% of the time we as a community clamp down on ppl who dont obey brunos and stephans rules. so why are we being moderated by of all ppl by to of the forums most respected members? i dont want to see a big balck blob with the name ellis or mortalwombat staring me in the face! i want the old ellis and wombat back. the ones who were one of us.

"Somebody over MSN asked me to "respect there decision to boycott the forum" "

respect it then! even now u seem to be trying to order us back into the forum . just plz plz look on our side of the river for once. dont see the black and white. everything black and white contains grey. and it is the less superior grey that you shd b taking a closer look @.

i wish to make a suggestion. ellis and mortalwombat. sign out of you original (mod) names and sign in as someone else. stay with your new name for a couple of days and take in what is happening to this close community. then come back with your original names and give your views again.

thank you,
terence aka orpheus



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imho, i think just them not having bold names and not going crazy is enough.

i cant be assed to not talk any more (it takes a lot of energy not to talk :P) so im just gunna talk to who ever now (wow, that lasted a good oooh 3 hrs :P)

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lol jon

i agree

i am going to post again on the forums starting from 2moro. but if this forum goes the way other forums have done, dont blame us for not trying.



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I think people are getting carried away with this mod subject. If the forum does change for the worst then we can bring this up at that point. In the mean time we have to carry on as we always have. As a great community. Ive been here for years now, granted I aint posted that much but Ive always enjoyed reading everyones posts. I even remember the days of the old phorum! We cant let this disagreement destroy our great community.

that since u have become mod u have strayed slightly to the "superior" side.

I cant remember if i started that before or after i became a mod, but fact is i asked for stright answeres because this forum has no poll option. He said "sometimes, and posted 3 or 4 replies. How on earth can ANYONE count them ni a proper poll when he posts more than once, and doesnt give proper answers? Thats all it was about and nothing more.

id b quiet happy with 99.999999% and the .00000001% of the time we as a community clamp down on ppl who dont obey brunos and stephans rules

We should all be obeying any rules they set down! It is there forum. you never know, you could log on tomorrow morning and there will be a notice up - "forums closed"

you cant argue, it is theres and they have full control over anything that goes on here.

"Somebody over MSN asked me to "respect there decision to boycott the forum" "

respect it then! even now u seem to be trying to order us back into the forum .

Actaully i asked people to come back for this thread, and boycott the rest if they wish because i wish to work out a COMPRIMISE. If I, and everyone else is to respect your decison to leave, which i do, then why arent some people respecting the decsion for mods to be put in place? Bruno and Stefan are the head guys here, and, within reason, what they say goes! Mods os within reason! All he wants is a couple of ppl looking over the forums, deleting double posts moving spam to the OT section etc. Its not going to suddenly turn into AlphaF1 with me changin links and delting your posts is it? It sounds like some people are "scared" in a way of moderators because they have the power to delete posts. the REAL question is will they use the power for bad or good things? GOOD OF COURSE!

everything black and white contains grey. and it is the less superior grey that you shd b taking a closer look @.

I have been through this all over MSN with lots of people. I have been talking with Vader alot about it, and we have been through all this. Im trying to make a comprimise, but both sides must want it.

It seems like some people on the other "side" ( there is no sides, we are still a community, but i duno how to describe it otherwise) are refusing to comprimise and are saying "right, no mods, thats final". Again, thats not fair either!

I posted some basic "rules" - which arent even real rules!

Unless you post abuse or sheer spam in the wrong forum, NOTHING WILL BE DELETED.

anything wrong with that?

Double Posts can be deleted if they are unment.

or that?

Just think what happened with Cae9? (if you where here?)

He posted LOTS of spam. Like, 10 pages worth, and it had to be deleted, and of course it couldnt be stright away because Bruno wasnt online at the time. THIS is what mods can be used for! Not for censoring the people, but for getting rid of the 1 person that comes along every 6 months or so and creates a HUGE problem for us. Cae9 was a massive problem cos the forum went down because of it and had to be reset. That is when the login system came along. Because of ONE person a whole forum was down and it took it a long time to recover properly from it. Mods will stop problems like this happeneing.

If you are telling us to step down before we even try, isnt this a bit unfair? Actually ALOT unfair!? Why dont you just see how it runs first, and any problems you take out with the source, which of course will be ME! then we can sort it out. If the problem is so big that mods must be done away with then so be it.

Clearly some people do not want a comprimise, but some are demanding that mdos are taken away. People who are doing this are doing what they are complaining about. Bruno puts in mods and you complain, then you say he must take them away and look as tho you are not open to suggestions. this is worse IMHO.

About the poll again - this has NOTHING to do with me being a mod. When i was told i was a mod i was actaully very carefull what i say. I have been thinknig what to say more in case it sounds more "power-mad" or whatever. FACT IS i wanted to make a poll which would work the same as other fourms - u click ONE answer and thats your ONE CLEAR VOTE! Becasue this fourm doesnt have a poll feature, i tried to make one the best i could by asking for ONE CLEAR ANSWER. He did not give one, and of course it cant be counte,d just like a normal poll. If your having a go at me for it, then have a go at the millions of forumers world wide who make polls then. cos they are also asking for ONE CLEAR ANSWER.




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

but i have to agree with the person who posted "sometimes they do sometimes they dont" just because you dont think it is a valid point doesnt mean its wrong. everything in this world isnt black or white, yes or no. there are places where neither are right. i just think you shd respect his choice. and if i remember correct there were alot of ppl who said sometimes.
so why not have the poll , yes : no: sometimes??

yes i was around when Cae9, i was here for about the last 3 1/2 years , in and out but ive regularly posted ere for the past 2 years. i remember the old phorum and i can vaguely remember the infamous blue whale topic. i have never sticked to one name. ive been chopping and changin' every 6 months or so.
but about Cae9, we stopped it didnt we? we sloved it. it may have been damaging for a time but we survived . this forum has gained alot of members in the last 2 to 3 months all of whom i have gr8 respect for and i hope they agree that they dont need to be moderated.if someone comes along who causes alot of hassle, we can deal with it when/if it comes along.

ellis i have gr8 respect for you and all. everypost youve written has been a well worth read and the forum wldnt b the same without you but having a respected members ike you being mod isnt a good idea, anyone being mod isnt a good idea and ive known that , the countless times ive seen forums going from gr8 with a large group of members to a handful and it gets very annoying

"learly some people do not want a comprimise, but some are demanding that mdos are taken away. People who are doing this are doing what they are complaining about. Bruno puts in mods and you complain, then you say he must take them away and look as tho you are not open to suggestions. this is worse IMHO."

well wot i can see is that you dont want a compromise either, you still want mods, so you offer us a compromise. wots the middle ground you tell me?

Bruno and Stephan are and always have been mods but they dont post that regularly and when they do it is usually an announcment.

i just dont see why this forum had to be changed. its not like as if it was being infested by f*ckin' pricks. everyone in this forum is well potty trained and doesnt need a teacher to tell them the rules of the forum! if you kno how to behave well wot are the rules for?

mods will bring tension, although ppl may disagree, they bring order and soon enough the light hearted nature of this forum will be sucked out of it.

thank you,

btw ellis im not having a go @ you. if anyone was a mod i wld still have the same view.



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Some good points there I do have to say.

Mortal what are your extended views on this? Do you feel so strongly about moderation that you would not revert to simply being a registered member too? - like we all are, and it has been successful for the last few years or so, it seems.

And what Terence says is true, we have all been willing to listen Dave but you can't say 'I want a compromise' but still have what it is we do not want, although finding a situation which we both want - which is, lets face it, one group wanting moderation and one group wanting no moderation - will be hard to find.

I'd also like to see Bruno's comments, made clear to the rest of the forum? If he (and you obviously think he does) view this matter as an important one, he should be able to give definitie, and compartively plausable reasons. This community and forum is a major part of gpgames.com - he would not shut it due to the fact that there are not a couple of people here that move threads now and again, or the little work you (Dave) seem to suggest you would be doing - so whats the point of having them anyway?

Mortal and Bruno....?



Visit my website [www.mrears.com]

I wasnt going to comment on this myself, but I might as well. Not continuing from any previous posts, here are my comments:

Firstly I want the best forum possible, and threads in the wrong forum are annoying, and them being moved is a good thing. Secondly, deleting double posts is also a good thing, and useless spam from Sveps. These are all the good things of moderation, but like with everything sweet there is the mouldy cherry on top. To me personally I still treat Ellis and mortalwombat the same. They do have authority over you, but in my view everybody is equal. But, as it is the mods have their names in bold, which really is annoying. For Bruno this is a good thing, because he posts very important stuff, but for Ellis and mortalwombat it isnt really needed.

Some people on MSN that ive talked to will say ive contradicted myself there, as I was totally against moderation. However, I have had a little think about it, and bearing in mind that everybody is equal, I am happy with the mods and what they are doing (good hous keeping stuff), but s'long the bold names are lost. Still, there was nothing wrong with the old way, and "if it aint broke, dont fix it." Basically, if we cant come to an agreement then I would personally put my vote in the box marked 'how it used to be'. I just want to read a forum where people generally get along as much as possible.



Post Edited (02-18-03 19:37)

Where is Mortal in all this?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Good question?