Human Player Car Grip

Hi everyone!

I can edit the AI performances by setting up BHP and performance values and ranges in GP4Edit or TeamEditor, right? And - correct me if I'm wrong - this also affects human players car BHP and failure rate!?

Is there also a possibility to change the human player car grip? Similiar to what I change with the "performance values" of the drivers?

Thanks,
Bernd

No, don't think so - that's just down to how good you are

The BHP will affect your car if you have Car Power Perf Dependent activated on GPxPatch, but those "grip" performances only affect the AI performance.

You'd have to use physics or GP4Tweaker to edit the tyre grip for yourself... or your Car Setup! lol

It would be a nice feature for someone to do that for say a CSM mod though - different tyre grips depending on what team you choose

fongu schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be a nice feature for someone to do that
> for say a CSM mod though - different tyre grips
> depending on what team you choose

That's exactly what I am aiming for.

So is there a way in GP4Tweaker to edit ONLY THE HUMAN PLAYER CARs Grip value?

Bernd

You could use Physics Editor to make changes to the Human Grip. You can't do it in Tweaker though no. Unless I am mistaken.

Generally to change the grip difference between Human and AI, you need to adjust the Overall Grip/Perf levels to be what you want the Human value to be, and then adjust the AI to the value you want THAT to be compared to Human. E.G. use CMagic to alter the AI Grip factors per track.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2010 03:19PM by TeamBPR.

I'm not sure about Tweaker - it might be for everyone, not just player - but maybe I'm wrong. Also I'm not sure it's controlled by ini files

TeamBPR schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You could use Physics Editor to make changes to
> the Human Grip. You can't do it in Tweaker though
> no. Unless I am mistaken.
>
> Generally to change the grip difference between
> Human and AI, you need to adjust the Overall
> Grip/Perf levels to be what you want the Human
> value to be, and then adjust the AI to the value
> you want THAT to be compared to Human. E.G. use
> CMagic to alter the AI Grip factors per track.

Does that mean, that the overall grip value is also used for AI cars and that the performance values I give the AI drivers is only relative to the overall grip value?

In other words: if I change the overall grip value without changing the AI drivers performances, will AI drivers have different lap times?

Bernd

Yep, if you use Physics editor, for example, to alter the Grip it will affect AI laptimes.

You can change it in the Tyre Values tab, and also as the "Mechanical Grip" values in the main tab. These will affect both the AI and your own performance.

Trouble with all the GP4 tools, is that you can end up editing the same thing in loads of places, so yo lose track, and one place would have done the job.

Fongu, I have a feeling that the Tyre Grip against Surface Grip value on Tweaker isn't related to an INI. But it definitely affects all cars - once you have all your AI -vs- Human performance correct, you can use this to just tweak your lap times a bit faster/slower for ALL cars.

"Old Mechanical Grip" affects only player's car.
Value is negative and lowering it even more, raises car's mass and weight.

Effects are:
- Higher Grip
- Higher speeds through corners
- Higher braking force
- Better traction at low speeds => no spinning => higher acceleration
- Car is heavier and acceleration is lower at speeds 250-300kph

All the above make you run faster lap times which is totally unrealistic - a heavier car should do slower lap times.

For that reason I never touch (=change) the "Mchanical Grip" value in the physics I make.
I always leave it to the original value... (and I also do the same with "Old downforce Coefficient" - for different reasons)

Am I right ...Mr Crammond?


_________________________
some of my GP4 works ...

I'm the same Cyberacer - I don't change those settings either. Am I right in thinking there's a "new" grip setting on Phys? Haven't edited it for ages now, lol \

What about the grip setting in the Tyres tab? That affects all players doesn't it? I can't remember hehe

Correct - all settings in Tyres tab affect ALL cars.

And speaking of grip - I know that grip over cc-line is higher than in areas outside it.
I noticed that while editing and testing physics for non-F1 mods with low tyre grip values.

_________________________
some of my GP4 works ...

Is that right mate? Wow that's interesting... that simulates then going off line doesn't it...?! Excellent! That explains a lot too then actually. Like, why when I'm off line I just end up going further off - mega frustration!! Now I know why - and I never thought it was because GP4 simulated being off the line or not. Not sure if that's how it was intended - but same net result? I like it!

That's exactly how it is.
And that's why in some fast curves, I try to drive a bit steeper than the cc-line - to make sure that my outside wheels won't go out of the cc-line and slip...

_________________________
some of my GP4 works ...

Now it makes sense! That's why the grip is amazing right on the inside of the Lesmos, and appalling if you are not tucked right in. This is a revalation to me! lol

Interesting stuff! Thanks for that, that's a big bit of news to me tbh! lol! Not that I haven't always tried to hit the racing line, but at least now I know why it sucks if I miss it! Haha

that´s interesting, cyberacer !

is there any chance to find out if there is a way of changing the grip level outside the cc-line? maybe some of that "unused" values in c-magic-datas ?
it could give a bit more reality into this simulation. especially for sandy tracks like bahrain, etc. where the grip-level aside the bestline is really bad...
i know about that value in c-magic data, simulating better laptimes/grip at the end of the session, but i don´t know if this value only affects c-cars or all, and i don´t know if it raises the track-grip level or what it does...but it´s there....
(i always knew that everything is within the gp4 code, we just have to fiddle it out...)

matt

Matt

Can you elaborate on the value in CMagic affecting grip by session time? Which line is that?

I'm sure there are more things in CMagic than I understand - does anyone know if there's a good guide for the lines of data? I have the template .MD3 files which have an explanation for most lines, but I had no idea about this Grip one....

Thanks

here we go: i put an example c-magic file from me here... if somebody knows more or something different please correct/comment/change.
it´s time to bring all we know about c-magic values together . like i said before to make this sim even more a sim, and leave the codeblasters behind...

matt

[GP4 magic file]

16 ; fw ai dry
14 ; rw
20 ; 1st
28 ; 2nd
35 ; 3rd
42 ; 4th
49 ; 5th
56 ; 6th
18 ; fw ai wet
16 ; rw
20 ; 1st
27 ; 2nd
34 ; 3rd
41 ; 4th
48 ; 5th
54 ; 6th
16 ; fw
14 ; rw player dry
20 ; 1st
28 ; 2nd
35 ; 3rd
42 ; 4th
49 ; 5th
56 ; 6th
5688 ; brake balance dry
18 ; fw player wet
16 ; rw
20 ; 1st
27 ; 2nd
34 ; 3rd
41 ; 4th
48 ; 5th
54 ; 6th
5738 ; brake balence wet
54 ; hard tyre
53 ; soft tyre
100 ; >= 50 tyretype 1 else 0
16384 ; unused
16384 ; unused
16384 ; unused
16384 ; unused
16990 ; track grip
16384 ; unused
16384 ; unused
24 ; down force, related to next value below
1018 ; ride height
16980 ; air resistance or air density??(prblanco)
7740 ; fuel in kg per lap*3000
384 ; subtracted from diff between field_e2 of 2 cars and then compared to speed of first car
15453 ; tyre wear
64768 ; increase of grip during a session (cc-cars only??) cc grip factor (added to car.field_108. related to cc grip factor)
512 ; grip finetune
500 ; cc power factor ace
509 ; cc grip factor ace
500 ; cc power factor pro
495 ; cc grip factor pro
490 ; cc power factor semi-pro
481 ; cc grip factor semi-pro
473 ; cc power factor amateur
472 ; cc grip factor amateur
455 ; cc power factor rookie
460 ; cc grip factor rookie
512 ; cc random perf range min
2048 ; cc random perf range max
68 ; ai errors. same chance multiplied with race perc.
68 ; spin recovery range, 1 to 256
2 ; sectors to pit in 1
19 ; sectors to pit in 2
20480 ; pre pit speed limit
13950 ; fuel consumption player
12775 ; fuel consumption ai
1000 ; ai race performance (cc shuffler)
128 ; a segment nr before which flag 0x80 in car.flags_ce is not cleared
86890 ; timing factor? (dw)
0 ; timing factor finetune? (dw)
15400 ; ai tyres
21000 ; same as above (dw)
10 ; rain chance
6 ; segment nr (start of some range)
6 ; segment nr (end of some range)
256 ; ai race grip another perf factor
20000 ; unk (dw)
136 ; unk (dw)
10000 ; black flag penalty
2048 ; black flag
240 ; unk (dw)
115 ; new (dw)
110 ; new (dw)
13 ; new (dw)
0 ; how deep in garage
1814 ; new (dw)
896 ; new (dw)
0 ; orientation in garage (angle)
0 ; new (dw)
0 ; new (dw)
16384 ; unk (dw) (always 16384?)
16384 ; unk (dw) (always 16384?)
16384 ; unk (dw) (always 16384?)
16384 ; unk (dw) (always 16384?)
16384 ; unk (dw) (always 16384?)
16384 ; unk (dw) (always 16384?)
15 ; pitstop group 1 %
29 ; stop 1
5 ; pit window 1
0 ;
0 ;
0 ;
0 ;
0 ;
70 ; pitstop group 2 %
19 ; stop 1
4 ; pit window 1
39 ; stop 2
4 ; pit window 2
0 ;
0 ;
0 ;
15 ; pitstop group 3 %
14 ; stop 1
3 ; pit window 1
29 ; stop 2
3 ; pit window 2
44 ; stop 3
3 ; pit window 3
0 ;
0 ; failure chance : suspension
744 ; failure chance : loosewheel
0 ; failure chance : puncture
0 ; failure chance : engine
744 ; failure chance : transmission
0 ; failure chance : oilleak/waterleak
0 ; failure chance : throttle/brake
0 ; failure chance : electrics
16384 ; unused
16384 ; unused
16384 ; unused
16384 ; unused
19968 ; bump factor
13 ; bump shift

[bumptable]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 05:03PM by schroeder.

Some more info on a CMagic value that also affects grip by session time :

...
desc69=pre pit speed limit
desc70=fuel consumption Player
desc71=fuel consumption AI
desc72=tyre grip wear rate (cc shuffler???)
desc73=a segment nr before which flag 0x80 in car.flags_ce is not cleared
desc74=timing factor? (dw)
desc75=timing factor finetune? (dw)
...

A higher value of wear-rate makes tyre-grip to reduce faster from lap to lap.
For a tyre that is to last for a 100% race, tyre grip wear rate should be set at 50% of the value in magic datas of original 2002 GP4 tracks.

_________________________
some of my GP4 works ...

This is really useful stuff...! Nice work

Great guys... let's keep it coming! I don't have any others to offer I'm afraid because I've been working off quite an old template MD3 so it doesn't have some of these.

This is excellent..

PS Cyberacer - got your email - thank you very much - just waiting to get a chance to try it out, and will reply and attach as you asked