Who cares about.... !

Mark,

I checked out the link you provided. While an article mentioned the "Chips and Bits" had GP4 available for US sales, the web site listed it as "out of stock" . Considering it is brand new and is not very well known in the us, my guess is that they have not actually recieved any product yet. I surfed to the "SoftwareFirst" site but it lists all their products in British Pounds. From past experience, trying to purchase GP3-2000 , games for sale in other countries most often can NOT be shipped to the US. Amazon still has it as " Not yet released". GameSpot only has the X-Box version listed , with a release date of Oct 15.

So , functionally , it does not seem to be available in the US.

I certainly hope the game is not as bad as all the reports have made it out to be. Still, even here, where appearantly you shall not bad mouth GP4, I have read a LOT more problem reports than exuberant ones.

JohnW

Neil,

The reason I have not purchased the new version is because I CAN'T ! It is not available in the most common outlets , here in the US. If you are resting your case on the fact that I have not purchased a product that by all accounts CAN NOT BE PURCHASED in the US, you better ask the judge for a continuance.

JohnW

John, that makes zero difference. Whether you were physically able to buy it or not, you still made these anti gp4 comments, which since you have never played the game, seems more than a little unfair to me.
When you have played the game, and have explored it all fully, then maybe he'll ask for a continuence, but not before.



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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

This has been an eye opening thread. It could have been a fairly sort one. Some one could have just simply said, " Actually, JohnW, the features you complained about have been added to GP4. " Then perhaps a link provided to allow me to learn about these additions. Instead, I got a long list of personal attacks. Appearantly I am responsible for playing a game that is not available for purchase in my country and knowing where to find features not mentioned in any article I have yet read. At least a few people refrained from that sort of thing. They know who they are and I appreciate their maturity.


JohnW

yawn. Yes, it could have been John, but it wasnt just "gp4 has missing features" it was that and "what most of you want is unimportant to me, its all fluff eg safety car" so you expect us to let you say you're right, were wrong, especially when you havent played it, and we wont respond? Come on.

Here are some links for you; not many because I'm bored

[www.gamesdomain.co.uk]

[www.gamespot.co.uk]


Read on



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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

do birds piss.................. thanx qwerty for that lovely thought and image

So, If I haven't played the game, I can't make comment on ALL the stuff I've read here and on the 'net ?!

Heck, I've read it's REALLY cold on Mt. Everest, but since I haven't been there, I can't say that.

That's a completly nonsensical stance.

JohnW

Thanks for the links, I have read the first one already. The second one is only a week old and I had not seen that one yet.

Again, nowhere in the article are new and FUNDEMENTAL features mentioned. Have they included a 7th gear ? According to some one here, they have. Do they allow camber adjustments and the ability to read tire temps to determine those adjustments ? Except for a comment in this thread, I had not seen that in print anywhere. The reason I was so firm with my remarks is because those are things as important as being able to adjust the front wing or spring rates. Wether you get to follow a safety car or rain looks like real rain is just iceing on the cake. It does not influence the playablity of the game or the driving experience. It's just extra stuff. From the early reactions to the possible lack of these extras, I have read huge complaints. As if those features were absolutly critical to the game. They're not. In the same vein, camber settings are not imparitive but would make a huge differance in simulating the actual F1 setups and driving characteristics of the cars.

Besides, from the second link you posted, other people have misgivings about GP4. This reviewer said it looked great, but " But at the moment it's as buggy as an anteater's' picnic and this seriously dulls your enjoyment of what is an otherwise magnificent F1 racing game. "

And I can't say bad things about it ?

JohnW

erm....

ure stupid?

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Well, it just shows how little most reviewers care and know about F1 and GP4 'cos a 7th gear and camber adjustments are in the game. Just because none of us are actual magazine or web site game reviewers, doesnt mean we dont know what we are talking about.

7 gears = Yes
Camber, temp, toe = No

But the options that are available are plenty; camber, toe in/out only complicates the physics simulation (I wonder if any game have gotten the simulation of those *and* all other options right yet).

Personally I couldn't care less if it's 100% correct physics, or if all the settings that are available to real cars are available or not - all I want is a sim that feels right and that lets me feel like I was there. GP4 does this for me.

Sounds a bit like F1 2002 would be a better game for you, alot of people seem to think that it has more "realistic" physics. I agree to a point, but where I don't agree is that they're accurate for a F1 car - my BMW M5 has better traction and less oversteer than the physics model in F1 2002 makes out that a F1 car has.

Wait for the demo, if you liked GP3 you'll hopefully like GP4 aswell - if not, there's alwasy F1 2002. But sorrry, no camber, tire temps or toe in/out.

A couple of points to make here. JohnW participates in a cross platform/software F1 SIM competition where his main rivals are using EA Sports F1 2001 or 2002. He is often discouraged by the fact that all the EA guys like to talk about how changing the rebound dampening and spring rate while decreasing ride height and adding packers improved their time by over a second. He looks back to his GP3 setup screen and wonders WTF we're talking about.

And to Mr. Bored, the person who can't be bothered to come up with a screen name other than the first 6 letters on his keyboard. Your review links do nothing but CONFIRM JohnW's concerns. I took the time to read the reviews for EA's F1 2002 as well and at both sites you provided they all rated it significantly better than GP4 so I ask you, why are you so hostile?

I realize that dising a game in the forum dedicated to it may not be cool, but JohnW is a current GP3 user and is doing his best to justify the purchase of GP4 when it becomes available in the States, if you want your inferior platform (based on review links provided above) to continue being available, I would suggest that you refrain from calling it's potential buyers "Stupid".

On the plus side, I am amazed at the graphics. The screen shots for GP4 are absolutely amazing in their realism. I would consider purchasing it just for the entertainment and stunning visual realism but would not use it for competition where more in depth setup options and telemetry are an absolute necessity.

woops sorry made a mistake in my post, I dunno if camber settings are in the game, only cos I never go into that detailed a setup.

well i'm not going to start slagging off GP4 too much (usually gets a pretty hostile response) but the setup option are extremely disapointing

OK Eugene....at no point did I get personal. Why you feel the need to do that is beyond me, and I did not call ANYBODY stupid, by the way.

As for the reviews, I did not intend for them to back up my arguement; he wanted links to reviews, he got them from two sites picked randomly from my favourites list.
I'm a dedicated gp3 2000 player, always have been, and I returned gp4 after 1 week because it just didnt run well on my 350mhz 8mb gfx machine.
As for my hostility, well, maybe its because there are no games where the level of simulation and playability John wants is available.

If I've semed overly hostile, I'm sorry, but "oh well, what the hell"



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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

Perhaps I misunderstood your "Yawn/Boring" comments immediately following JohnW's post, I interpreted that as personal given it's context. And I don't remember getting personal, I do recall making a correlation between you calling someone "boring" and your unimaginative use of "QWERTY" as an alias, but that's just me being a smart ass, simply recognizing the irony and not really meant to be offensive.

As far as the "stupid" thing, I wasn't refering to you, that's why I started another paragraph. I was refering to other forum members [Mika] who have childishly called JohnW "stupid" for being upset that a game he is commited to has not delivered what it should. He too is a loyal GP3 user but doesn't want to get stuck in a hole, he wants to advance, he wants to be challenged, and GP4 does not deliver. Call it frustration, but don't call it stupidity.

I don't know if you've played F1 2002, but it does deliver what he is looking for. The graphics may not be quite as good as GP4, but they're damn close and certainly better than GP3. I haven't driven a GPx game so I can't really comment on it's physics engine but from what I've read, all cars are modeled identically both visually (other than livery, of course) and dynamically... A Minardi is just as fast as a Williams. The very term SIM refers to a simulation of the actual event and I think that any developer who strives to increase the realism not just visually but dynamically as well has done a service to those of us in the SIM racing community and those who don't, don't.

Again, I apologize if I misunderstood you but I hate to see someone who is only trying to learn get ridiculed for asking a legitimate question. Mika pissed me off earlier in the thread and I was a hair trigger by the time I got to your post.

Constructive...



THERAT

I would like to add that CDN_Merlin was also involved in the name calling, in fact, he started it. I'm a little suprised and disappointed at this since based on my experience with him at f1i.com, he seemed a mature and well spoken Canadian.

Apparently many of you did not understand that JohnW is a GP3 user, I can't imagine you all turning on your own like that if you did. I'm quite certain that based on his experience here that he will NOT be a GP4 user.

Why aren't you all as disappointed as he is that the new version of your SIM doesn't deliver what it should?

Fred,

Thanks for the info. So far, I am enjoying GP3 even with some of the limitations. I do watch the Ferraris in F1 and see how much negative camber they use and wish I could setup the car with some. That would really help in high speed corners. I'm sure it would make the physics modeling more difficult, but it seems a good number of sims have it. Whether it is correctly modeled is difficult to know.

I don't know if F1-2002 would be more to my liking. A 56K modem keeps me from downloading large files just to try out things. After 7 months of using GP3 quite a lot, I'd rather not have to switch platforms and relearn how to setup the car. I just wish GP4 had been a solid product right out of the box, and had added features that the competition already has. For now, it's just wait for a fixed version.

JohnW

To all GP4 bashers, I read such a great reply at Simbin I just have to share with you;

"I am sorry guys but if you think any "Racing Games" are anything like driving a true/real car then you are very much mistaken.

Whether you feel a games is a "sim" or a "game" is neither here nor there, it just doesn't matter, as long as you enjoy it.
Driving F12001/2 or Gp3/4 or GPL or FIAGT mod, won't make or a real racing driver.

So just grow up and enjoy PC games for what they are, GAMES FOR FUN.

BTW, I feel F12001's physics model lends its self to GT racing far more than F1.
FIAGT is an awesome game that I play most of the time, but if I want to race F1, then its GP4 for me. "


Maybe F1 2002 has better physics. I doubt they're anything like a F1 car though. But truth to be told, most of us play for fun and immersion, and GP4 has plenty of that. If you'd rather pretend you can drive a car by practising in your SIM, then do so. Don't bother me with you completely meaningless antics about physics and what your perception of reality is.

Neither of us will ever likely get to experience what a real F1 car feels like driving, but to me GP4 (no matter where it stands on its physics emulation) *feels* so much closer than F1 2002. Why can't my opinion be enough without you trying to ruin my experience by pointing out that *you* feel it isn't a SIM since according to you its driving model is faulty.

And FYI, all the sports cars I have ever owned or driven have had more lateral grip and less oversteer than what is apparent in F1 2002 - I tend to believe that 600 kilos of car with state of the art tires and tons of downforce should handle better than your average road car.