how many polys on the average car?

all those carshape makers out there, what is the average number of polys your using for a decent car?

im talking button14's mclaren, intwebs williams, enzojzs jordans etc?

do you hae a set mind limit on what pcs can acceptably handle?

have you a cunning way to create low poly complex areas such as curves cylinders?

ive tried making the cicumference shape a polygon, well a heptagon to be precise, but the angles which it bends seem to be rinsing 1000 polys per section EACH!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

i think nowadays an average car is like 8000 - 12000 polies?
low poly shapes are 6000 and below
and high poly shapes are 15000 +
extreme high poly shapes are 22000 +

remember the default cars are like 2500 polies

basically something like this in the use of polies?....

Default
Yohan
ROM
Intweb\Flash
Geno\Fongu
Oggo\Wai\B-tone
Nick\Ghostrider\BMWFan
Ebi = madman :P



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2005 11:45PM by Mini Maestro.

Check the 2003 cars, they're all quite well made and I don't think any goes over 6000! But then people went crazy

Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check the 2003 cars, they're all quite well made
> and I don't think any goes over 6000! But then
> people went crazy
>
>
>

Good point! A few mods use polies uneconomically which is very sad to me

Nevertheless, the number of polies depends on the mods' mind very much.

but pc's are much more powerful now and most can handle the increase, so why not?

Well...finally a good thread. I perfectly agree with Mini Maestro and Guimengo. I think that original Gp4 cars were probably poor in definition; furthermore, they had also 512 textures as Hi textures. But, nowadays, the trend of a lot a carshapers and carpainters is to make Hi polys cars ( with only LOD 0 !!! ), with "mega" ( 2048 ) textures...This is a crazy way to kill GP4.
I think that a good, detailed car can be reach also 12-15000 polys; but then, it has to be followed by good, real lower lods.
Regarding textures, I think that a really good compromise between particulars and functionality are 1024 textures; but not surely higher are needed for a game like GP4.
Yes: remember we are always speacking about a game...not "modellism".
Who cares a 20000 poly car, with 2048 tex, in game, while he is driving? What's the difference among this car and a 10000 poly car with 1024 tex in game?
This is the point.
And this trend of "mega" GP4 updates is common also to tracks, helmets, steering wheels, cokpits, etc.
I also think that from 2003 this viewpoint has been lost from the majority of GP4 updaters.

Mini Maestro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i think nowadays an average car is like 8000 -
> 12000 polies?
> low poly shapes are 6000 and below
> and high poly shapes are 15000 +
> extreme high poly shapes are 22000 +
>
> remember the default cars are like 2500 polies
>
> basically something like this in the use of
> polies?....
>
> Default
> Yohan
> ROM
> Intweb\Flash
> Geno\Fongu
> Oggo\Wai\B-tone
> Nick\Ghostrider\BMWFan
> Ebi = madman :P
OI! im not a madman :P

You said it perfectly, Nicola!

I don't know much about carshaping, but by using GP4 on a 1600 x 1200 screen the cars are looking more realistic with high polys. try Enzos ferrari 2005.
I hope i'm not fooling myself

gr. Buddyspike

i dont know, but for me the game has to look right, one big reason why f1c doesnt appeal to me at all. My last car was 16000 polys and its a boxy square car compared to 2005 cars. I dont want to think what I'll do if i made a PS05

about killing GP4.....

We never said you HAVEto download the hi-poly cars!! I drive with the 2001 default cars otherwise, my pc goes crazy

but I also make own carshapes, mcl 1997 ==> 7000 polys, so its not too exagerated I believe

I've also a question, if you finished your shape, how to make lower poly cars? you need to restart ith less poly's? or is there a way to do it easily

I don't want to be misunderstood...my opinions about "too heavy" updates for GP4 are personal...and I want they remain so. All other people can think in a different way, and I surely respect them.
But, please, try to consider how is changed the CPU request from 2 years to now in GP4, due to hi and mega textures, high poly cars, etc,etc.
I think not all GP4 users can play with last generation PCs...and this is the reason of my reflections.
I never said to not download last Gp4 updates...and I have the maximum respect of GP4 skilled updaters, such as EnzoJr, Bojan, Fongu, Erik,Yohan, ROm,Intweb,Wai, BMWfan, etc,etc ( sorry if I have not wrote all names..), just becouse I think to be..one of them.
Making lower lods for cars is an important part of shaping. You have to spend some more time to make them, and I saw that no one about last shapers is making this work in a proper way.

When I will publish my Ferrari F 2005 season set, You will see how it's possible to make high quality cars with a reasonable poly count, ALL REAL LOWER LODS ( not a lod 0 or a lod1 repeated until lod 4 ), and 1024 textures.

@Nicolacciarri: I think you don't download my cars, because you seem to believe that all the authors you quted don't create real lower lod, but it's false:
That is the details of my cars:
R25 silverstone set:
lod0: 622ko (9443 poly)
lod1: 612ko
lod2: 488ko
lod3: 127ko
lod4: 112ko
Redbull2005:
lod0: 390ko (5996 poly)
lod1: 386ko
lod2: 338ko
lod3: 181ko
lod4: 170ko
GP2 shape
lod0: 418ko (6431 poly)
lod1: 360ko
lod2: 287ko
lod3: 192ko
lod4: 173ko
Sure, it's a time-consuming part of the creation, besides many users have an 'use lod0 only' option. I think it's very difficut to make lowers lods when your lod0 has more than 10000 polys.
My computer is not lower perforances, so it's not a problem for me, the main problem is that i have a 56k connection and it takes a while for sending very-hires cars. And i consider that there's not uges differences between an very hi res and a hi res car.
About texture, I think having one 2048*2048 is an intermediary solution, better than 3 1024*1024, and lighter than 3*2048*2048 what is excessive as to me.
Another point to critcizm=, as to me) is about damage model. I think is useless to make the engine in order to see it when you crash, whereas, in facts, it has to be destroyed. I'm sure it take about 2000 poly.
But every carshape maker do as he want and everyone has to respect these choices.

But why You say I don't download your cars? I never said...My reflections are general, and are addressed to the common trend of GP4 on heavy updates. If You want understand the real point of this discussion ( as Guimengo, or mini Maestro seem to have done ), well..otherwise, never minds. I consider You a skilled and talentous carshaper, and I never said the countrary. You probably do lower lods..but how many carshapers do the same, and in a real way ( like You showed for your cars )?
Take a car with high poly ( 1050 kb..or closer ); consider that car ( lod 0 ) for 10 ( both cars, all lods ); consider that car with "mega" textures of 2048; consider now all ( or almost ) cars for GP4 with this configuration...this is the trend, not the rule ( like You explained ). But this is the trend.
And consider this trend also for all other GP4 updates.
Finally the question will be: which is the best PC for GP4? And...how many people have similar PCs?
I have a last generation Pc, but I don't say"..I don't care, since I have a powerful Pc". If I should make updates for GP4 only thinking to my Pc, probably I had no publish new files.
All we agree, anyway, that everyone has own opinions, and personally I respect yours, and those of other people, since the final ( and the main, probably ) aim of this discussions is to enjoy friendly a common fun for GP4.

I completely agree with the last few posts. Polycounts have gotten pretty out of hand lately. Part of the reason I don't drive the modern cars.

For my 1994 cars I'm getting 3000-4000 polys for lod0. Yes, they are more blocky than a modern car, but I still think a 2005 car could be done really well in about 6000 polys. Getting the proportions right is more important to making a good car.

as for the damage model, it doesn't have to be a pig, the one we've been using for '94 has maybe 200 poly, plus you probably add another couple hundred by on the insides of sidepods/engine cover. What really bugs me (and what drives the polycount way up) is a) having indivual pipes for each cylinder, especially with an octagon or more section and b) when the inside of the engine cover is just a reoriented copy of the outside


PS the trend of attaching the engine/gearbox to the cockpit object creates the really weird effect of having the marshall standing inside the engine while he's pushing the car. better to keep the engine as its own object

Loren i disagree.
A modern F1 car should be in the 9000 - 15000 poly range but with lower lods for those with not so great computers. There are many technical little things which shoot the poly count up when compared to older cars
That said you cannot fault high poly older cars which have great quality like Oggo's Benneton B196 or Fongu's Sauber C15 or many of b-tone's cars.

That said it is of course up to the maker but personally things like 3 x [2048 x 2048] are extreme in the sense that there is no real visible quality increase over 3 x [1024 x 1024] or 1 x [2048 x 2048].

loren Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I completely agree with the last few posts.
> Polycounts have gotten pretty out of hand lately.
> Part of the reason I don't drive the modern cars.
>
>
> For my 1994 cars I'm getting 3000-4000 polys for
> lod0. Yes, they are more blocky than a modern car,
> but I still think a 2005 car could be done really
> well in about 6000 polys. Getting the proportions
> right is more important to making a good car.
>
> as for the damage model, it doesn't have to be a
> pig, the one we've been using for '94 has maybe
> 200 poly, plus you probably add another couple
> hundred by on the insides of sidepods/engine
> cover. What really bugs me (and what drives the
> polycount way up) is a) having indivual pipes for
> each cylinder, especially with an octagon or more
> section and b) when the inside of the engine cover
> is just a reoriented copy of the outside
>
>
> PS the trend of attaching the engine/gearbox to
> the cockpit object creates the really weird effect
> of having the marshall standing inside the engine
> while he's pushing the car. better to keep the
> engine as its own object
>
>
@loren

Absolutely right! I agree with you

yeah rite..

"PS the trend of attaching the engine/gearbox to the cockpit object creates the really weird effect of having the marshall standing inside the engine while he's pushing the car. better to keep the engine as its own object"

I aggree with that bit!...But I think that people will always make cars that work ok for them...if other people want them to release these cars then its the downloaders problem that is to hi-poly. For example, My work on Silverstone 2005 and the amount fo detail i can put into the textures is restricted by my (the developer's) system specs. I have updated silverstone to run perfectly on my pcm after all it is a personal project, and if others want the track then they have to accept this, even if they have a much better system than me. Most hi res tracks (not by me) have some problems at certain parts of the track because the designer has a faster, more powerful pc than me (Till Tuesday anyway when i get my 6600GT! lol).
It would be impossible to create tracks, and cars for that matter that will look great and run well on everybodys system. Its a case of the majority wins im afraid, which is harsh but the developer has no other way of doing it.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2005 06:49PM by Willb.

The size of the polys of the Jordan 2005 from Enzojz, Teraur's McLaren,
Rom1 Renault's, Intweb's Williams are okay for my PC.

The Ferrari from Enzojz was too big for my pc (only an AMD Duron 1200/
GeForce4 Ti 4200).

I hope it will not start a polygon battle between the car makers.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2005 08:12PM by Harry.