Formula 1 Legends Mod İdea
Posted by asdqweyuk
"thanks for kind words about my new blood, but unfortunately, i have little time after work, and i afraid i will be dissapear when mod finished"
That's a shame... I was going to ask if you would do a little job for me. 16 loading screens. Already done really, but could use a little of your magic to make them more interesting.
"Williams... i stuck to reality and give them no chance to be champion. but in our legend mode, they has 4th best car, they are our pretty king from Crusader kings = )"
OK, 4th best it is. Maybe aim for two or three wins and six to nine podiums per season perhaps? And more consistent than average?
(You might like to know that pitstop times can be modified too, so that a very well trained pitcrew can be made to complete a pitstop slightly faster than the average, some of the time. If you like that, maybe you could think about which teams should be given which level - maybe good, average & below average).
"we should decide to Tiers of Drivers. Maybe in PM massages. if Senna and Prost will be in same tier, your this sentence is perfect."
Good idea. Since it's your mod, you choose first and I'll make comments on them.
"Skill points... Example İf: Leclerc and Verstappen in our tier 3 class. verstappen more talented and leclerc more fast. its equal them, and it is why they are in same tier. but when they duelling with Prost who is Tier 1 class, they mustnt be equal. But, most importatnt part, they can beat him with low% chance. hearing your equalise logic, and talent speed differencies is amazing. i can feel what is your spreadsheet art."
Sounds good. Matches my thoughts exactly, but being an old guy, and a Brit, you can expect me to want to rate Hunt more highly than you might like!
"thanks for explain failure% again."
No problem.
"i have headache with helmets."
Choose a bigger size.
Actually, helmets are an interesting story and it will help you understand why you're having problems:
In the original game, all helmet GFX were mapped on to a single model shape: car_helmet_00.gp4 (comes with 3 lower lods, 1,2 & 3). All drivers share the same shape - like how the cockpit shape in the cockpit view is shared by all drivers.
Over the years, several updated helmet shapes have been created, but most require the helmet GFX to be laid out differently to the originals.
So if the helmet shape used in your mod works correctly for some drivers but not others, you'll need to match the layout of the tex for the non-working ones with the layout used for the ones that do work correctly.
Alternatively, if none of the helmet GFX work properly, (but they are all laid out the same in your tex files) it might be quicker to go back to the very first one you edited, and take the car_helmet_00.gp4 shape from that mod (whatever it was) and drop it into yours, using Easywad or Wadupdater etc.
Finally, I thought of another feature you could make use of last night. There is a file called numcars.ini that you can use to prevent a car from taking part in a race or certain races. He'll still qualify as normal, but he'll be missing from the grid - and it could be used to make it harder for certain fast cars to win the championship by denying them entry into a race or two: a bit like when Schumacher was disqualified twice in 1994 which probably cost him the title.
Looking forward to getting started on your PFs soon. It's going to be fun to get it all working well on the track. Remember to send me your track.DATs some time too, so I can fix your fuel & pitstops.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2021 04:37PM by Noog.
That's a shame... I was going to ask if you would do a little job for me. 16 loading screens. Already done really, but could use a little of your magic to make them more interesting.
"Williams... i stuck to reality and give them no chance to be champion. but in our legend mode, they has 4th best car, they are our pretty king from Crusader kings = )"
OK, 4th best it is. Maybe aim for two or three wins and six to nine podiums per season perhaps? And more consistent than average?
(You might like to know that pitstop times can be modified too, so that a very well trained pitcrew can be made to complete a pitstop slightly faster than the average, some of the time. If you like that, maybe you could think about which teams should be given which level - maybe good, average & below average).
"we should decide to Tiers of Drivers. Maybe in PM massages. if Senna and Prost will be in same tier, your this sentence is perfect."
Good idea. Since it's your mod, you choose first and I'll make comments on them.
"Skill points... Example İf: Leclerc and Verstappen in our tier 3 class. verstappen more talented and leclerc more fast. its equal them, and it is why they are in same tier. but when they duelling with Prost who is Tier 1 class, they mustnt be equal. But, most importatnt part, they can beat him with low% chance. hearing your equalise logic, and talent speed differencies is amazing. i can feel what is your spreadsheet art."
Sounds good. Matches my thoughts exactly, but being an old guy, and a Brit, you can expect me to want to rate Hunt more highly than you might like!
"thanks for explain failure% again."
No problem.
"i have headache with helmets."
Choose a bigger size.
Actually, helmets are an interesting story and it will help you understand why you're having problems:
In the original game, all helmet GFX were mapped on to a single model shape: car_helmet_00.gp4 (comes with 3 lower lods, 1,2 & 3). All drivers share the same shape - like how the cockpit shape in the cockpit view is shared by all drivers.
Over the years, several updated helmet shapes have been created, but most require the helmet GFX to be laid out differently to the originals.
So if the helmet shape used in your mod works correctly for some drivers but not others, you'll need to match the layout of the tex for the non-working ones with the layout used for the ones that do work correctly.
Alternatively, if none of the helmet GFX work properly, (but they are all laid out the same in your tex files) it might be quicker to go back to the very first one you edited, and take the car_helmet_00.gp4 shape from that mod (whatever it was) and drop it into yours, using Easywad or Wadupdater etc.
Finally, I thought of another feature you could make use of last night. There is a file called numcars.ini that you can use to prevent a car from taking part in a race or certain races. He'll still qualify as normal, but he'll be missing from the grid - and it could be used to make it harder for certain fast cars to win the championship by denying them entry into a race or two: a bit like when Schumacher was disqualified twice in 1994 which probably cost him the title.
Looking forward to getting started on your PFs soon. It's going to be fun to get it all working well on the track. Remember to send me your track.DATs some time too, so I can fix your fuel & pitstops.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2021 04:37PM by Noog.
> i am completely agreed
> with you, we need tone of overtakings and drama.
> not boring. we need to istanbul GP 2020 every race
> = )
I'll send you something soon which will show you how I intend to achieve that. I'll need to draw a diagram to explain properly and discuss it with you.
> i cant play game because no time
> because of bloody modding! ok, i will wait.
PM was sent earlier.
> What would you like the points scoring system to
> be? what is this? after race point system?
Well you know, how many points for a win, how many for 2nd etc. I tend to use my own system which gives 20 pts for 1st, down to 1pt for tenth, but the point is, it can be whatever you want. Older "shorter" F1 points systems, like 9.6.4.3.2.1 tend to disadvantage weaker teams, but giving points down to tenth (or whatever) tends to help weaker teams with good reliability.
In the overall scheme of things it doesn't really matter much, but it's your choice. I've spent a lot of time studying F1 results and almost every season there's a driver who regularly finishes in the top ten, but unless he manages to get a 6th or above he'll get no more points than a driver who finishes near the back. Take a look at Michele Alboreto in 1992 for instance. Sure, he scores enough points to finish 10th in the championship, but he got nothing for his SIX 7th places which didn't seem fair to me somehow. Using my system, for example, he would have finished 8th. Also, compare Lehto and Katayama in the same season. Both got no points at all but clearly Lehto had much better set of results and would have finished 12th using my system instead of 18th=.
Extremely marginal stuff I know, but little things like that keep a 'weirdo stats guy' like me awake at night.
In your mod, there really won't be any real backmarkers as such, just as no-one will really get the chance to dominate. It will be a much closer championship, because they're all 'legends' by definition, but you might want to give some thought to how you'd like the points system to look - or you can just choose a real F1 system (see the points tab in the spreadsheet I sent).
> It also comes with an automated compilation page
> where you will be able to see how things look
> after the six seasons
> sound too interesting, in algo trading, people do
> Monte Carlo Analysis for see future result
> propobalities. it is very strange to heard it in
> F! game, lovely.
I worked on the floor of the London stock exchange in the mid-2000s. It was only a few days and I didn't like the people much, but it was spreadsheet heaven!
See? I really am a weirdo stats guy...
> Helmets.
>
> in my country there is some idiom: " Boss is gonna
> mad" yeah with helmet i am gonna mad. i refused to
> losing and opened photoshop. i retexture all best
> helmets now. Based your Hunt's and Lauda's shape.
> hamilton 2020 helmet is finished before this post.
Sounds good. It took me months to find my way around the game like you have in just a few days and I remember I was confused by helmets for a while too. Well done.
> F1 Champions
> iremember this. i will check again.
Creation date on my zip is 24th of October 2020. Maybe PM timtoffee if you can't find it.
> with you, we need tone of overtakings and drama.
> not boring. we need to istanbul GP 2020 every race
> = )
I'll send you something soon which will show you how I intend to achieve that. I'll need to draw a diagram to explain properly and discuss it with you.
> i cant play game because no time
> because of bloody modding! ok, i will wait.
PM was sent earlier.
> What would you like the points scoring system to
> be? what is this? after race point system?
Well you know, how many points for a win, how many for 2nd etc. I tend to use my own system which gives 20 pts for 1st, down to 1pt for tenth, but the point is, it can be whatever you want. Older "shorter" F1 points systems, like 9.6.4.3.2.1 tend to disadvantage weaker teams, but giving points down to tenth (or whatever) tends to help weaker teams with good reliability.
In the overall scheme of things it doesn't really matter much, but it's your choice. I've spent a lot of time studying F1 results and almost every season there's a driver who regularly finishes in the top ten, but unless he manages to get a 6th or above he'll get no more points than a driver who finishes near the back. Take a look at Michele Alboreto in 1992 for instance. Sure, he scores enough points to finish 10th in the championship, but he got nothing for his SIX 7th places which didn't seem fair to me somehow. Using my system, for example, he would have finished 8th. Also, compare Lehto and Katayama in the same season. Both got no points at all but clearly Lehto had much better set of results and would have finished 12th using my system instead of 18th=.
Extremely marginal stuff I know, but little things like that keep a 'weirdo stats guy' like me awake at night.
In your mod, there really won't be any real backmarkers as such, just as no-one will really get the chance to dominate. It will be a much closer championship, because they're all 'legends' by definition, but you might want to give some thought to how you'd like the points system to look - or you can just choose a real F1 system (see the points tab in the spreadsheet I sent).
> It also comes with an automated compilation page
> where you will be able to see how things look
> after the six seasons
> sound too interesting, in algo trading, people do
> Monte Carlo Analysis for see future result
> propobalities. it is very strange to heard it in
> F! game, lovely.
I worked on the floor of the London stock exchange in the mid-2000s. It was only a few days and I didn't like the people much, but it was spreadsheet heaven!
See? I really am a weirdo stats guy...
> Helmets.
>
> in my country there is some idiom: " Boss is gonna
> mad" yeah with helmet i am gonna mad. i refused to
> losing and opened photoshop. i retexture all best
> helmets now. Based your Hunt's and Lauda's shape.
> hamilton 2020 helmet is finished before this post.
Sounds good. It took me months to find my way around the game like you have in just a few days and I remember I was confused by helmets for a while too. Well done.
> F1 Champions
> iremember this. i will check again.
Creation date on my zip is 24th of October 2020. Maybe PM timtoffee if you can't find it.
Well, if I were you I wouldn't worry about all that yet. The onion has many layers and we're still peeling back the first.
The championship points I mentioned in the PM are only being used to generate the basic power levels in my PF Calc, but they do not reflect how I expect any given season to end up. (Maybe if you drove 10,000 seasons it might end up like that if you added all the seasons together, but it won't happen in this lifetime).
Anyway, once the basic power is set (which is where we're at now), we will then apply layers for variance, grip and failure rate to your 'tiers'. (That's the arty part we need to discuss).
Then, using the data from all those layers, and having applied various profiles (front-loaded, rear-loaded, bell curve, inverted bell curve, consistent, inconsistent) to various drivers across the season, we will generate a full set of real world qualifying and fastest race lap data. (That's the science part).
Then, once that's done, my PF Calc will treat everything as if it were real world data from a normal F1 season and spit out a set of PFs on its own. (That's the get your helmet on and get ready to race part).
It sounds backwards when you write it all down like that, but I think it will lead to a very interesting season, with different drivers looking stronger at various points in the season - and ideally, I'd like you to go into the last race with between, say, four to six drivers (or maybe even more once in a while) still fighting for the title and with up 20 points left to play for, that should be entirely possible.
As for it being too easy for you, I think you'll be surprised, because I'll be using the MDs to make sure that doesn't happen.
For me, PFs are all about calibrating all the cars, relative to each other. They have nothing to do with the tracks and little to do with the 'human' driver.
MDs on the other hand, are used to calibrate to the cars to the track AND to calibrate the human driven cars relative to the computer controlled ones on that particular track.
So what? Well it means that if the PF dictates your car should come in 10th in a particular race (it will vary for each race), I'll be using the MD to make sure you'll need to drive quite well to even achieve that - and you can almost guarantee you won't be winning regardless of how many yellow Senna pills you take beforehand!
On the other hand, if the PF in another race says that you should win, you'll still have to drive well to do that too - and if the random failure algorithm chooses that particular race to take your car out, you've got a problem.
In other words, there will be a very strong "hidden hand" behind each race - and that's why every race will be competitive for you in every car, all the time. Your days of racing up through the field are over!
But you'll love it... And so will I.
Seriously, just let it happen dude. I've never attempted anything quite this complex in GP4 before (with all the variable variables varying all the time!) and it might take a while and quite a few test races before it really comes together. But once I come up with a set of PFs for us both to test (and with both of us enjoying short races it should make everything happen sooner), it won't take long before we start to pin it down - and personally I'm hoping to use your mod for the final season in my career modes - a sort of super league kind of a thing, like the European Cup or the World Cup in football.
The championship points I mentioned in the PM are only being used to generate the basic power levels in my PF Calc, but they do not reflect how I expect any given season to end up. (Maybe if you drove 10,000 seasons it might end up like that if you added all the seasons together, but it won't happen in this lifetime).
Anyway, once the basic power is set (which is where we're at now), we will then apply layers for variance, grip and failure rate to your 'tiers'. (That's the arty part we need to discuss).
Then, using the data from all those layers, and having applied various profiles (front-loaded, rear-loaded, bell curve, inverted bell curve, consistent, inconsistent) to various drivers across the season, we will generate a full set of real world qualifying and fastest race lap data. (That's the science part).
Then, once that's done, my PF Calc will treat everything as if it were real world data from a normal F1 season and spit out a set of PFs on its own. (That's the get your helmet on and get ready to race part).
It sounds backwards when you write it all down like that, but I think it will lead to a very interesting season, with different drivers looking stronger at various points in the season - and ideally, I'd like you to go into the last race with between, say, four to six drivers (or maybe even more once in a while) still fighting for the title and with up 20 points left to play for, that should be entirely possible.
As for it being too easy for you, I think you'll be surprised, because I'll be using the MDs to make sure that doesn't happen.
For me, PFs are all about calibrating all the cars, relative to each other. They have nothing to do with the tracks and little to do with the 'human' driver.
MDs on the other hand, are used to calibrate to the cars to the track AND to calibrate the human driven cars relative to the computer controlled ones on that particular track.
So what? Well it means that if the PF dictates your car should come in 10th in a particular race (it will vary for each race), I'll be using the MD to make sure you'll need to drive quite well to even achieve that - and you can almost guarantee you won't be winning regardless of how many yellow Senna pills you take beforehand!
On the other hand, if the PF in another race says that you should win, you'll still have to drive well to do that too - and if the random failure algorithm chooses that particular race to take your car out, you've got a problem.
In other words, there will be a very strong "hidden hand" behind each race - and that's why every race will be competitive for you in every car, all the time. Your days of racing up through the field are over!
But you'll love it... And so will I.
Seriously, just let it happen dude. I've never attempted anything quite this complex in GP4 before (with all the variable variables varying all the time!) and it might take a while and quite a few test races before it really comes together. But once I come up with a set of PFs for us both to test (and with both of us enjoying short races it should make everything happen sooner), it won't take long before we start to pin it down - and personally I'm hoping to use your mod for the final season in my career modes - a sort of super league kind of a thing, like the European Cup or the World Cup in football.
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