Magic Data Discussion
Posted by TomMK
Good ol' Geoff making it harder for us to figure out 
Cheers Atticus.
=====================================================
Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel
Cheers Atticus.
=====================================================
Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel
I believe it's time to dig this thread up again because there's still so much we can do to improve magic data comprehension.
On my side there's a long time I wanted to work on adding Magic data editing in GP4Builder and I finaly got some time to put some efforts in it.
As I did previously for the .dat or .gp4 file format, I tried to gather all the individual tries and discoveries into a unique file to get the most complete list. And here's what it is looking like actualy :
I'm sorry for the big picture but I can't release any playable version yet as there's more to come and I would like to complete this feature the best I can before any release.
I'm particulary interested in your reports concerning the names of the values as I made a lot of changes to match all the tests and guess.
Any addition, correction or unknown value meaning will be appreciated of course
Enjoy.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2013 01:06PM by Lo2k.
On my side there's a long time I wanted to work on adding Magic data editing in GP4Builder and I finaly got some time to put some efforts in it.
As I did previously for the .dat or .gp4 file format, I tried to gather all the individual tries and discoveries into a unique file to get the most complete list. And here's what it is looking like actualy :
I'm sorry for the big picture but I can't release any playable version yet as there's more to come and I would like to complete this feature the best I can before any release.
I'm particulary interested in your reports concerning the names of the values as I made a lot of changes to match all the tests and guess.
Any addition, correction or unknown value meaning will be appreciated of course
Enjoy.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2013 01:06PM by Lo2k.
incredible Laurent!The ability to import / export to .md3 would be useful.
Here's the comments I use for each value (Atticus has found out a few more in his post's above since I wrote this):
[GP4 magic file] 16 ; front wing [AI DRY SETUP] 14 ; rear wing 22 ; 1st gear 28 ; 2nd 35 ; 3rd 42 ; 4th 49 ; 5th 56 ; 6th 18 ; front wing [AI WET SETUP] 18 ; rear wing 21 ; 1st gear 27 ; 2nd 34 ; 3rd 41 ; 4th 48 ; 5th 54 ; 6th 16 ; front wing [PLAYER DRY SETUP] 14 ; rear wing 22 ; 1st gear 28 ; 2nd 35 ; 3rd 42 ; 4th 49 ; 5th 56 ; 6th 5750 ; dry brake balance 17 ; front wing [PLAYER WET SETUP] 18 ; rear wing 21 ; 1st gear 27 ; 2nd 34 ; 3rd 41 ; 4th 48 ; 5th 54 ; 6th 5750 ; wet brake balance 54 ; softer tyre [52 Hard, 53 Medium, 54 Soft, 55 Supersoft] 53 ; harder tyre [52 Hard, 53 Medium, 54 Soft, 55 Supersoft] 100 ; >= 50 AI chooses softer tyre, otherwise harder 16384 ; unused 16384 ; unused 16384 ; unused 16384 ; unused 15882 ; track grip 16384 ; unused 16384 ; unused 24 ; downforce (17 - 31) 1018 ; ride height (926 - 1022) 16975 ; air resistance 8152 ; fuel per lap 384 ; Slipstream. Subtracted from diff between field_e2 of 2 cars and then compared to speed of first car. 15453 ; tyre wear 64768 ; ai race grip (always 64768) (added to car.field_108. related to cc grip factor) 512 ; ai grip fine tune 500 ; ai power factor ace 512 ; ai grip factor ace 500 ; ai power factor pro 500 ; ai grip factor pro 490 ; ai power factor semi-pro 490 ; ai grip factor semi-pro 480 ; ai power factor amateur 480 ; ai grip factor amateur 465 ; ai power factor rookie 465 ; ai grip factor rookie 512 ; ai random performance range min 2048 ; ai random performance range max 8 ; ai chance of errors 8 ; ai recovery sectors 2 ; sectors to pit in begin 19 ; sectors to pit out end 20480 ; pre pit speed limit 16920 ; fuel consumption player 15922 ; fuel consumption ai 3343 ; ai tyre wear 32 ; track sector after which AI cars stop being cautious on 1st lap (flag 0x80 in car.flags_ce is not cleared) 86890 ; timing factor? (dw) 0 ; timing factor finetune? (dw) 15400 ; helps decide if a tyre set needs changing? (dw) 21000 ; same as above (dw) 8 ; rain chance 6 ; segment nr (start of some range) 6 ; segment nr (end of some range) 256 ; ai race grip (always 256) 20000 ; unknown 136 ; unknown 10000 ; Black Flag penalty (ms) 2048 ; Black Flag severity? 240 ; unknown 115 ; unknown 110 ; unknown 13 ; unknown 0 ; ??? 1814 ; Car depth in garage (Player car) 896 ; Car depth in garage (AI cars) 0 ; Car Garage Orientation 0 ; Pitstop stall depth from pitlane (Player + AI) 0 ; Pitstop stall depth from pitlane (Player + AI) finetune 16384 ; unknown (always 16384?) 16384 ; unknown (always 16384?) 16384 ; unknown (always 16384?) 16384 ; unknown (always 16384?) 16384 ; unknown (always 16384?) 16384 ; unknown (always 16384?) 70 ; pitstop group 1 % 26 ; stop 1 6 ; pit window 1 0 ; 0 ; 0 ; 0 ; 0 ; 30 ; pitstop group 2 % 17 ; stop 1 4 ; pit window 1 36 ; stop 2 4 ; pit window 2 0 ; 0 ; 0 ; 0 ; pitstop group 3 % 12 ; stop 1 4 ; pit window 1 27 ; stop 2 4 ; pit window 2 41 ; stop 3 4 ; pit window 3 0 ; 744 ; failure chance : suspension 744 ; failure chance : loose wheel 744 ; failure chance : puncture 1488 ; failure chance : engine 2488 ; failure chance : transmission 344 ; failure chance : oil leak / water leak 744 ; failure chance : throttle / brake 744 ; failure chance : electrics 16384 ; unused 16384 ; unused 16384 ; unused 16384 ; unused 19968 ; bump factor 13 ; bump shift
=====================================================
Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel
Very nice, Laurent! Good work, but I can't confirm some of the value-ranges. E.g. line 25: The AI-breakbalance. This value is nearly always about 5700. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never seen values of less than 200 .
I'll test the values and tell you if any description seems to be incorrect.
.I'll test the values and tell you if any description seems to be incorrect
.@TomMK : Yep, I read this whole thread and many more to get the list I implemented in GP4Builder
@Klausfeldman : That's because you are used to raw data instead of display (refined) data.
Most of the magic data as displayed in the .md3 files are raw, but not all.
In example all Wings angle and Gears ratio are in fact raw values dimished by 151.
When you edit 15 in the .md3, it is stored 166 in the .dat.
My guess for the 25 and 34 values is that the raw value you are usualy using might be decreased by 5663. Yep, it makes a difference and I'm maybe wrong, but I believe this refined value could get more sense if you read it this way and compare with ingame results. Only tests will tell.
It's the same for 35 and 36 because as SDI wrote in his forum, tyre values could be decreased by 52. It then leaves us with 0 to 7 types.
I also used a smallint for the 51 because as Addie described in a post from this thread, it is most probably the way to read this value.
Raw values are... raw, they surely were more handy for developers but they are not very easy to manipulate and edit for players. That's why there are changes of this kind in my list.
PS : Import .md3 done
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2013 03:42PM by Lo2k.
@Klausfeldman : That's because you are used to raw data instead of display (refined) data.
Most of the magic data as displayed in the .md3 files are raw, but not all.
In example all Wings angle and Gears ratio are in fact raw values dimished by 151.
When you edit 15 in the .md3, it is stored 166 in the .dat.
My guess for the 25 and 34 values is that the raw value you are usualy using might be decreased by 5663. Yep, it makes a difference and I'm maybe wrong, but I believe this refined value could get more sense if you read it this way and compare with ingame results. Only tests will tell.
It's the same for 35 and 36 because as SDI wrote in his forum, tyre values could be decreased by 52. It then leaves us with 0 to 7 types.
I also used a smallint for the 51 because as Addie described in a post from this thread, it is most probably the way to read this value.
Raw values are... raw, they surely were more handy for developers but they are not very easy to manipulate and edit for players. That's why there are changes of this kind in my list.
PS : Import .md3 done
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2013 03:42PM by Lo2k.
I also long planned to publish my notes, refine them, organise them, I mean those I made during the research I made a few months ago, but I'm still busy atm.
As it is, I would like to thank immensely Lo2k for taking the time, I'm really glad you picked up on the matter as well, because I know you always do top-notch jobs.
Here are my notes nevertheless:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2013 04:04PM by Atticus..
As it is, I would like to thank immensely Lo2k for taking the time, I'm really glad you picked up on the matter as well, because I know you always do top-notch jobs.
Here are my notes nevertheless:
desc1=fw AI dry desc2=rw desc3=1st desc4=2nd desc5=3rd desc6=4th desc7=5th desc8=6th desc9=fw AI wet desc10=rw desc11=1st desc12=2nd desc13=3rd desc14=4th desc15=5th desc16=6th desc17=fw player dry desc18=rw desc19=1st desc20=2nd desc21=3rd desc22=4th desc23=5th desc24=6th desc25=brake bias dry desc26=fw player wet desc27=rw desc28=1st desc29=2nd desc30=3rd desc31=4th desc32=5th desc33=6th desc34=brake bias wet desc35=soft tyre (52-55, higher, softer) desc36=hard tyre (52-55, higher, softer) desc37=>= 50 for tyretype 1, else 0 desc38= desc39= desc40= desc41= desc42=track grip desc43= desc44= desc45=downforce desc46=ride height desc47=air pressure desc48=fuel (for 1.0 lap) desc49=slipstream (not very effective) desc50=?tyre wear player desc51=AI aggressiveness in attacking corners (32768-65536 higher, more - 0-32768 higher, more, /l/) desc52=AI aggressiveness finetune desc53=cc power factor ace desc54=cc grip factor ace desc55=cc power factor pro desc56=cc grip factor pro desc57=cc power factor semi-pro desc58=cc grip factor semi-pro desc59=cc power factor amateur desc60=cc grip factor amateur desc61=cc power factor rookie desc62=cc grip factor rookie desc63=random perf range min desc64=random perf range max desc65=nr of AI errors desc66=nr of sectors checked by AI after spin desc67=sectors to pit in begin desc68=sectors to pit in end desc69=pre pit speed limit desc70=fuel consumption player desc71=fuel consumption AI desc72=?tyre wear AI desc73=nr of segments before cars break rail-line at the starts desc74=poletime (e. g. 70800 equals 1:10.800) desc75=poletime finetune (+/-1000 equals +/- 1.0) desc76=change for drys/wets timing AI (higher, sooner) desc77=change for drys/wets timing AI finetune desc78=rain chance desc79=????? - segment nr (start of some range) desc80=????? - segment nr (end of some range) desc81=AI race grip desc82=????? - unk (dw) desc83=????? - unk (dw) desc84=black flag penalty desc85=black flag desc86=????? - unk (dw) desc87=????? - unk (dw) desc88=????? - new (dw) desc89=????? - new (dw) desc90='handbrake' (at -312) desc91=garage pos depth player desc92=garage pos depth AI desc93=orientation in garage desc94=pit stall depth desc95=pit stall depth finetune desc96= desc97= desc98= desc99= desc100= desc101= desc102=pitstop group 1 % desc103=stop 1 desc104=pit window 1 desc105= desc106= desc107= desc108= desc109= desc110=pitstop group 2 % desc111=stop 1 desc112=pit window 1 desc113=stop 2 desc114=pit window 2 desc115= desc116= desc117= desc118=pitstop group 3 % desc119=stop 1 desc120=pit window 1 desc121=stop 2 desc122=pit window 2 desc123=stop 3 desc124=pit window 3 desc125= desc126=failure chance : suspension desc127=failure chance : loosewheel desc128=failure chance : puncture desc129=failure chance : engine desc130=failure chance : transmission desc131=failure chance : oilleak/waterleak desc132=failure chance : throttle/brake desc133=failure chance : electrics desc134= desc135= desc136= desc137= desc138=bump factor desc139=bump shift
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2013 04:04PM by Atticus..
OK, so it seems we now have pretty much the same list. I only had to invert Soft and Hard tyres.
BTW, Everythings seems OK.
You can import from or export to .md3, remove all the magic data and add or remove bump ranges (up to 11 so far).
Here's a little preview :
BTW, Everythings seems OK.
You can import from or export to .md3, remove all the magic data and add or remove bump ranges (up to 11 so far).
Here's a little preview :
Great stuff Laurent! A really welcome addition
About the brake values, I still think they make more sense the way they're currently displayed at the .md3 files, if I'm not mistaken a value of 5600 in the .md3 means the brake bias is 56% to the front tyres.
Other questions to the thread in general: what is the "handbrake" (desc90) value? And is it possible to use negative values in the garage position values?
My unfinished tracks: [www.grandprixgames.org]
Send bug reports and track editing questions to f1virtualblog@gmail.com
About the brake values, I still think they make more sense the way they're currently displayed at the .md3 files, if I'm not mistaken a value of 5600 in the .md3 means the brake bias is 56% to the front tyres.
Other questions to the thread in general: what is the "handbrake" (desc90) value? And is it possible to use negative values in the garage position values?
My unfinished tracks: [www.grandprixgames.org]
Send bug reports and track editing questions to f1virtualblog@gmail.com
"if I'm not mistaken a value of 5600 in the .md3 means the brake bias is 56% to the front tyres."
I will most probably revert them to their raw values then, but can someone confirm this ? BTW is there any tool that is displaying Brake Bias used by IA ?
Handbrake was discussed in pages 2 and 3 of this thread, it avoids car from sliding if garage is not flat.
I tried several values but it seems we can't make the car standing further inside the garage with the actual player garage Y pos.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2013 08:04PM by Lo2k.
I will most probably revert them to their raw values then, but can someone confirm this ? BTW is there any tool that is displaying Brake Bias used by IA ?
Handbrake was discussed in pages 2 and 3 of this thread, it avoids car from sliding if garage is not flat.
I tried several values but it seems we can't make the car standing further inside the garage with the actual player garage Y pos.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2013 08:04PM by Lo2k.
@SDI : OK, thanks SDI. I will keep it the usual way then...
@Klausfeldmann : We still don't know what it really does then....
@Klausfeldmann : We still don't know what it really does then....
Just one short suggestion by me:
To line 79, I think it would be more clear to write e.g. 'sectors at start until cc-cars leave the straight line' instead of 'start of some range'.
To line 79, I think it would be more clear to write e.g. 'sectors at start until cc-cars leave the straight line' instead of 'start of some range'
.Isn't it line 73 rather that is setting this property (sectors before cars are leaving the straight line) ?
Lo2k schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't it line 73 rather that is setting this
> property (sectors before cars are leaving the
> straight line) ?
Yes, you're right
. That was my bad.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't it line 73 rather that is setting this
> property (sectors before cars are leaving the
> straight line) ?
Yes, you're right
. That was my bad.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.