Heidfeld and renault

hi guys,

i was just taking a view at the driver seats in 2012 and the permutations that go with it. Now i saw that: 1) Petrov is confirmed at Renault, uppps sorry, LOTUS and 2) that nick heidfeld is looking for a place somewhere in HRT or Virgin.

What a tragedy, what a pity for this driver !!! Indeed i never liked him that much, but he was a hell of a constant driver, and he got fired for the wrong reasons as well. The guy didnt know some of the track he had to drive on, had no experience with that bloody car whatsoever, apart from the testing in 2011, and still... he was way more consistent than petrov and had the equal amount of points before he got fired. Consider as well, that he had a huge trouble in Barcelona with his floor, a moroonic driving by kobayashi (as always from a sauber driver) costed him a certain 5-th place in canada, and even more morooninc drive by buemi or alguersuari (not quite sure) costed him a point, 2 or maybe even 4 in nurburgring. And of course his disasters in Hungary were in no way induced by him.

Now what has petrov done since then?? Well, the answer is pretty close to NOTHING for me personally. ! And keep in mind he has the 5 th fastest car (beside singapore). Even when he scored his only 2 points after nick left, namely in japan, he was outpaced by a SAUBER, that had started the race from 17-th compared to petrovs 10-th grid slot. I wil never forget what nick said in an interview at monza (i cant recall whether the interview was for BBC or RTL but anyway): "i just want to drive". And he was really very honest, he even made me sympathise for him. If petrov has proven he cant do ANYTHING in a car that is capable of podiums (except the crazy 1st race of 2011), heidfeld proved, he can perform constantly and bring good point home. He and kubica would be an awesome team as well, even if they didnt use to be the best of chumps.

And just 1 last statistic: heidfeld has scored points in 6 out of 10 races (but please take into account his disasters in nurburgring and canada and hungary) = a total of 60 percent succes !
petrov had scored points in 5 out of 10 races (WITHOUT any problems at all) and then 2 times out of the last 6 races ! = a total of 50 percent succes in the beggining of the season and appr. 44 % in total.

i am really sad the way renault treated heidfeld. they could have at least make sure, that he gets a drive till the end of 20 eleven somewher eelse.

..even schumacher has a higher poins scoring rate of 10/17. adn thus despite accdents in: australia, turkey, monaco, valencia, silverstone, nurburgring, hungary, belgium (qualy), singapore and korea.

Whoooow !!! and hes still only 5 points behind nico. pfff. pls give the guy a fast car next season round.

Well money talks in F1, and Petrov and Senna had money, and Heidfeld didn't.

How exactly was the Heidfeld/Kobayashi incident in Canada Kamui's fault?

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X (@ed24f1)

Come on! When Nick Heidfield was hired it was said that expectations are that he leads the team. Beating Petrov isn't something he can be proud of. What is more - he was even on points with him when he had to be by far ahead of the Russian. We can see that Bruno Senna is at least equal to Petrov. And Bruno is youngster with only one full season in F1, while Quick Nick is there for about a decade! And being at merely one and the same level doesn't convince me Heidfeld had to stay in F1.

Quick Nick had to lead the team and be the driver to develop the car. I didn't saw that happening. Besides that - the difference between Nick and Vitaly is that Petrov gives his team about 10 million per season, while Heidfeld - about 0. And I'm not quite sure if Renault is still Top 5 car. I think they stopped working on 2011 car, while I think Force India and Toro Rosso kept working a little longer. Given that i personally don't see much difference between Nick and Bruno. And Senna brings some fresh money, so another point to replace the german with the brazilian.


I personally sympathized Heidfeld until the moment he got to complain about everything and everyone. Which happened I think when Robert Kubica started beating him almost every race in 2008. Nick reminds me about Barrichello and I personally think they both should be out of F1 ASAP so that there are more places for younger talented drivers - such as Bruno Senna, Nico Hulkenberg, etc...

I fully agree with what you said m8 Heidfeld did a really good job got consistent points home and got knocked off in Canada,Germany, had bad luck in Spain practice(or was it quali?) and Hungary.

Now i have nothing against Vitaly despite him holding up fernando at abu dhabi but thats off topic lol but he didnt score anything since mid season and in suzuka a track renault should have performed well both drivers struggeld massive.

I really liked Boullier and felt he was doin a good job but when he fired heidfeld that was it. He didnt even had a good reason for it.

Now Bruno did a good job in spa quali 7th but blew it in Race and for the other Races well in Monza he was quite good but apart from that the car aint what it was at start of the season (from a podium contender to 6th team).

So I think Kubica and Heidfeld would have done good together and who says heidfeld couldnt beat Kubica wich he did on 07 but thats another case.

Anyway i think could be interresting to see whats gonna happen there in the nxt weeks with the Driver Line up

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"And thats the bottom line cause Alonso0506 said so"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2011 07:10PM by alonso0506.

Heidfeld scored points consistently for Renault. Senna had scored 2 to date. It's not a switch I agreed with at the time, and I still disagree with it now.

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"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Heidfeld wasn't good enough. In a season that has basically been a write-off for Renault, I don't see why trying Senna out for a future seat isn't seen as anything but proactive.

Senna has been rusty around the edges, and I can't see him being a long-term fixture in F1, but then on this season's form, Heidfeld certainly wouldn't be either, even if you disregard his age.

He was expected to lead the team - we knew he was little more than a mediocre, solid driver, and his lack of a 2011 contract (and apparently his lack of any offers from established teams for 2012) seems to confirm the teams are thinking the same. But he was brought in to stabilise the team and to give Petrov a target, provide experience and develop the car... the fact of the matter was that Petrov (a very average driver at best, and a pay driver) was his equal and the car only went backwards. I can't see Heidfeld's season being anything other than a disappointment... even a failure, that's perhaps too strong a word.

yeah right. heidfeld is the only one to blame for renault being absolutely disaster this season.
just like fisichella was in renault in 2007, or schumacher in mercedes in 2010, or raikkonen at ferrari in 2009.

Team fo backwards because their wind tunnel or idea concept (renault had a pretty radical idea with its exausts that had NOTHING to do with heidfeld) or whatsoever isnt right. not because heidfeld was in the team.

I said he was expected to lead the team. He wasn't brought in because he's great driver, because he never has been. He was there for experience and to be a consistent performer.

Renault might not have used the trick exhausts had they done 2011 again, but it's not like they were a horrendous concept - it was clearly a top 10 car at the start of the season, which is exactly where you'd have expected Renault to be. Surely the brand new concept (to my knowledge) of a front-exiting blown exhaust had more potential in it than a rear-exiting blown diffuser (which was used in the 80s), yet they couldn't extract that potential. Renault were fantastic in 2010 at developing their car, with updates just about every race keeping them close to the front teams throughout the year, yet in 2011 they've been disappointing. It should have been the other way around, with the R31 the car that gets better and better.

Of course I'm not saying Heidfeld is to blame for that - that would be ridiculous - but he was there to provide the team with feedback and consistency so that the team could extract the most from the car. That's why he was there - that was why they brought him in. Yet he was anything other than consistent (which is unforgivable for such an experienced driver who's main attribute was his consistency) and the if feedback didn't appear to make any real difference, why keep him on? You might as well try out some guys for a potential 2012 seat, should Kubica not make it back (and given the lack of information, you have to assume he's going to miss at least the start of the 2012 season, and I'm worried about him returning at all).

So it comes down to Heidfeld, who never showed great pace, wasn't as consistent as expected and has to be paid a large salary.
Or Senna, who brings in sponsorship from Brazil, is raw and determined and to be honest, showing signs of being as good as Heidfeld was performing despite coming in mid-season, and is possibly groomed for 2012. He's just a bit rough around the edges.

I was clamouring for Heidfeld at the start of the season, as I though they would be nuts to have a driver partnership of two raw drivers in Petrov and Senna, but if Heidfeld couldn't provide the team with the leadership they brought him in for, then what would be the point of keeping him?

I fully agree with what gav said. And what does exactly consistent mean? He has just 5 points in his last 5 races. Plus he was often out-qualified by his younger, not so much experienced and as you said mediocre team mate. And that team mate gives his team some money.
To be honest I don't believe that Heidfeld would have got much more points than Senna. And Bruno brings some new sponsors, he is younger driver and I definitely think Boulier made the right decision. I hope the money he got help the team so that they develop a fast car next year. A car that is at least constant podium-contender.

I'm sure that if there wasn't the accident with Kubica the Polish would have got at least 50 or more points by the time Heidfeld made his 34...
You said Heidfeld beat Kubica in 2007, but that was the first full-season to the Polish.
Next year the German will be 35, so I don't expect to see him again in Formula 1. As I said I expect that Barrichello leaves the paddock, too - i don't see him to be any better than debutant Pastor Maldonado. So any of Raikkonen/Sutil/Senna/Grosjean would be better choice for Williams next year. Well, actually I'm not quite sure about Grosjean, but still he is younger and also will bring some money from Renault (or at least the engines will cost less )

I just hope Kubica's back next year and that he is as good as before. That was looking to be like another Nannini.

Then we'll see just how good Senna/Petrov are. I would like to see the two alternating races but that won't happen due to Petrov's money and Russian interest, so I doubt Senna will be in that car next year.

I like the guy but I don't know if we've seen enough to warrant a seat for next year :/

His choices are Williams if the Kimi deal falls though and even then he has competition, Renault if Kubica doesn't come back, Force India sounds more and more to me like it's going to be Hulkenburg and di Resta which means that any spaces down the grid are likely to be filled by Sutil.

So I dunno if we'll see much of Bruno again.

Edit: his next chance may be getting involved with LOLa if they're serious about their return.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 06:43PM by loque.

I'm not sure about Grosjean either. However he's a good a prospect as any other driver on the cusp of making it into F1 and he has a chance to be far better prepared this time round.

In fairness to him, putting him in the rather poor Renault of 2009 and having Alonso as a team-mate was a bit like being pushed into a lake full of piranha and a great white shark.

I'm not so sure about Senna being dropped. Anyone who thinks he's not good enough for Kubica's seat just needs to re-watch Spa quali this year. He has been a bit inconsistent, but he's not been that bad, and not enough to merit losing the drive. Remember that he was parachuted into the seat mid-season. There's been only one time so far that he's screwed up, and that was on the first lap at Spa. Everyone - teams and F1 fans alike - needs to give him a fair chance.


gav Wrote:
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> Or Senna, who brings in sponsorship from Brazil,
> is raw and determined and to be honest, showing
> signs of being as good as Heidfeld was performing
> despite coming in mid-season, and is possibly
> groomed for 2012. He's just a bit rough around the
> edges.

This.


Incident 2k9 Wrote:
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> Heidfeld scored points consistently for Renault.
> Senna had scored 2 to date.

The car was more competitive when Heidfeld was driving it. It's been much more difficult to score points in since the middle of the season.

Regarding Kubica, I'm not sure he won't be another Nannini. His recovery doesn't have a positive buzz about it like, for example, Massa's did. Sadly, the feeling I get so far is that he's unlikely to return, and even if he does, I'm not sure how much of his form he'll be able to get back.

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EC83 Wrote:
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> I'm not so sure about Senna being dropped. Anyone
> who thinks he's not good enough for Kubica's seat
> just needs to re-watch Spa quali this year.

With that logic, Hulkenberg should be in a Red Bull.

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X (@ed24f1)

What he means is that clearly Senna has some talent and potential, it's just about extracting it and making him consistent.

You can make a fast, inconsistent driver consistent. But you can't make a slow, consistent driver fast.*

* With the exception of Pedro Diniz post-Forti perhaps.

SchueyFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not so sure about Senna being dropped.
> Anyone
> > who thinks he's not good enough for Kubica's
> seat
> > just needs to re-watch Spa quali this year.
>
> With that logic, Hulkenberg should be in a Red
> Bull.

Yeah, because I forgot Hulkenberg filled in for Vettel at Spa and qualified 1.2sec faster than Webber. No offense, but my logic is sounder than yours if that's the best argument you can come up with.
Gav sees where I'm coming from.

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My point is that there are no points for qualifying, and it is even less representative as it was a mixed weather session (just as Hulkenberg's was).

While he may have potential, there's no point going back to that one lap when he's hasn't set the world alight in the races. Yes, he scored points at Monza, but that was a little lucky due to the Saubers retiring and Liuzzi taking out a few of his main rivals. He's competed in 24 races now, he really should be finding his consistency now.

Of course the other question is in regards to Petrov's performance. After such a great start, he's been a little underwhelming.

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X (@ed24f1)

I'd argue that mixed weather quali provides a better opportunity for drivers with potential and ability to show it, especially against an established teammate. And yeah, Hulkenberg in Brazil was epic too.

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hulkenberg who ??
the man who had : 4--> 10th places: 1--> 6th: and 1--> 7th and 1--> 8th places to barrichellos 47 points last season ??? and we see where barrichello is actually, even compared to a mediocre driver like maldonado. Never mind that if pastor had finished in monaco he would have more points than barrichello this season as well.

sorry but i really think hulk is overrated because of one qually. of course there is not right and wrong opinions... there are only opinions. Mine goes with Schueyfan. Senna had driven modern f1 cars (2010 + 2011) and he was never even in the spotlight. MOnza was down to liuzzis lunatic driving mostly, actually even a force india was ahead of senna at that race. Still, he has 2 more races and he can well shine in them (i really hope he can)

. but my point is that a few good performances (like kobayashi in 2009 in the end) dont neccesarily mean a driver is soo good. kobayashi doesnt have a point since... like forever and i cant say he is way better than perez either.

Perez is a raw talent, I think his driving is very mature for his age.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it