RIP Dan Wheldon

loque Wrote:
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> How many deaths will Indycar allow before they
> start making some changes? I know they are
> heavier than F1 cars but they still flip FAR too
> easily after front-end contact.

Well, sadly they already have begun that process. The naxt-gen car (which Wheldon tested) has basically got fenders on the back. But they've been so damn slow in introducing it: I think this was year 8 of what was supposed to be a 3-year chassis cycle. However, once the thing flipped like that it wasn't going to make a difference whether he was in a new car or not. Rollover hoops are not impact structures.

To me, the biggest problem not the cars but these 1.5 mile tracks. They're great for NASCAR but for Indycar the speeds are far too high and they allow the cars to run two or three wide in the turns on a regular basis. I really don't know why they keep going anyways, the attendance is poor, and they're outside of Indycar's traditional home of the Great Lakes and West Coast. There still are plenty of tracks which are far more suited to these cars in every way yet the organizers insist on being NASCAR lite instead of trying to have their own identity.

loque Wrote:
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> Ferrari2007 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
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> > I think you have to recognise that these
> Dallara
> > chassis' are also around 8 years old now. Their
> > design is not built on a modern day level of
> > safety.
>
> That's exactly my point - why are they still using
> them? I don't know the politics involved but I'm
> guessing Dallara have a "contract" to supply those
> chassis for X amount of years.
>
> Gav - was Wheldon's car the last one to flip?


think it was the 2nd one that went airborne

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It's slightly odd that a sport that belongs in the worlds most lawsuit happy country should suffer format of motorsport more inheritantly dangerous than it's European/international equivalent series.

I think absolutely everybody remotely connected with Motorsport is genuinely shocked by this tragedy and one can only hope that the lessons are learnt and forever now prioritised in the way the FIA have relentless pushed safety forwards since Imola 1994.

I think perhaps Indy should look at developing the chassis on a more regular basis so any safety enhancements can be built into the cars at the conceptual stage. Studies should be carried out to replace the fences with some other boundary with properties more appropriate to contain these kind of accidents.

Like I've already said in the GPG Facebook group, I'd followed his career on and off since he was in the junior formulae in Europe racing against Jenson. I can honestly say I don't remember being quite as shocked or affected by any motorsport tragedy post-Imola 1994.
It never ceases to strike me that the lights which shine the brightest, are the ones which get turned off way way too soon.

RIP Dan.

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Quote
loque
That's exactly my point - why are they still using them? I don't know the politics involved but I'm guessing Dallara have a "contract" to supply those chassis for X amount of years.

Sadly I don't think the car would make any difference in this instance. I don't know if a metal roll hoop would have coped any better than a carbon-fibre one. I know they're doing magical stuff with carbon-fibre even now, but I can't help but feel that a metal hoop might cope better than a carbon-fibre one when faced with the cheese-grater that the catch-fencing is.

If so, perhaps a metal-carbon fibre hybrid would be possible. I'm sure any viable solutions will be re-evaluated now. Still, cockpit first into the catch-fencing, I doubt it would make any difference - the roll hoop isn't going to stop your heading being hit in that instance.

Quote
loque
Gav - was Wheldon's car the last one to flip?

Dan's was the first proper airborne car, the one down on the inside. Pippa Mann's (the white one) was launched a moment later in the middle of the track. Will Power's was the one which flew last, the one which went several metres into the air and covered such a long distance airborne, after hitting the car that Pippa clipped.

RIP Dan Wheldon
I can't help but feel that there are several drivers allowed to race in that series who are not up to the task / standard, the amount of stupid on track incidents this series see's is testament to that. Dario Franchitti and Danica Patrick said that they were concerned in the early stages of the race that something bad was going to happen with the way a lot of drivers were behaving and sadly it did happen.

These cars aerodynamics allow for more side by side racing and less slipstreaming, we didn't get as many incidents like this back in the CART days (on the speedways) as the cars then (with the Handford Device) allowed for better slipstreaming so cars could blast past one another rather than run side by side .

Plus even 10 years ago the drivers had more respect for each other on track and more awareness that even relatively innocent accidents had plenty of potential to be serious. I remember the uproar when drivers felt Villeneuve didn't slow down enough heading into an accident zone at a race in '94 or '95 (I think at Phoenix), making contact and resulting in a far worse accident and an injured driver.

I said this in the Italian GP thread just a few weeks ago. Drivers are getting complacent and when accidents do happen, freak occurrences sometimes means that someone gets hurt of killed. Sadly, though I was talking about a different series, I was right, though I certainly wasn't expecting to have it proven so soon.

As obvious as it might seem, motorsport will always be potentially deadly as long as forces greater than what the human body can tolerate are involved. So the danger of fatalities will always be there. It's important for everyone involved to always be mindful of this and to do everything they can to minimise that inherent danger.

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As many have said, I see it a case of too little too late.
Senna's death heralded sweeping change in cockpit safety in open wheel racing...thank heavens there haven't been further deaths in F1 since then (crosses fingers)...unfortunately the mindset of American racing is that they want to see oval track racing...they want to see faster cars on higher banked tracks designed for NASCAR...and the end result when you combine stupidly fast cars on a relatively small banked oval is the death of a very talented driver (and could've well ended the lives of 2 others).

When I saw the footage...frankly I couldn't believe how Indycar management couldn't see this kind of mass accident occurring..Wheldon even said it himself, much like Senna expressed concern when Barrichello nearly died and Ratzenberger passed away,

If I was in the position of making final judgement on next near, I would seriously..I mean SERIOUSLY look at next year's Indycar roster and just have street/road races with the exception of the Indy 500 on it.... I honestly don't see why Indycar needs to have oval tracks on the calendar. Indianapolis is the exception only because I can't see Americans give up 100 years of auto racing tradition.

RIP Dan....you were a hero on the track...I sincerely hope that your unfortunate passing heralds a new dawn in auto racing safety...the sad part of auto racing is that when safety is concerned, the powers that be are sometimes more reactive than proactive...irony indeed knowing that Wheldon himself was testing a new chassis designed to improve car safety.

My condolences to his family.

I don't think IndyCars need to abandon oval racing, they just need to be more careful in their choice of which ovals they do use, and the field size.

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X (@ed24f1)

Again a nice guy and gentleman is gone, leaving his wife, 2 children and a lot of friends behind.

There are no words to say, only good things and great memories, like winning the Indy 500 for the second time this year.

He was a great Champ and a very nice guy.

We will miss you Dan...

R.I.P. my friend...



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Don't want to embed this image in case people are touchy about seeing it, but this is a picture taken of Will Power mid-flight.

[img.ibtimes.com]

Look at it. Just look at it. Not just at the flight but at the big picture. Too much speed, too many cars, too narrow a track. This was an accident waiting to happen.



EDIT: And, I know this is an old video from ~2006ish but I still say they flip far too easily:





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2011 08:19PM by loque.

Yes, and it's miraculous that more drivers were not hurt, either from debris, cars landing on one another, and of course Power, who was extremely lucky that he went floor first not cockpit first into the fencing.

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X (@ed24f1)

so surprising how those pieces of debris managed to disrupt the airflow n lift that car up. crazy seeing that, reminds me of when Webber crashed in Le man in 1999,

There are two obvious things I can think of which can be done to attempt to prevent this:

1) Build walls higher and remove the catch-fencing
2) Make cockpits enclosed.

The carbon-fibre/metal hybrid material idea Gav suggested for roll-hoops would be worth considering too.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2011 12:11AM by EC83.

the problem with enclosing cockpits its that in case of an accident with fire involved it makes much more difficult getting out of the car for the driver. needless to say nothing if the driver is unconscious

TBH with all the @#$%& floating around now (Franchitti, Power, Tracy, Sam Schmidt all admitting they may now walk away for good, Randy Bernard apologising for promoting wrecks) as well as this big $1M investigation involving the FIA (for crash investigation as well as driver licensing) and the sheer public outrage caused by this, I think this could be the end of Indycar as we know it.

Complete complacency in pretty much all aspects involved really. The sport is at least set for a long period of self-reflection.

Normally the ovals are pretty safe right?

I can see them going for an all road course/street circuit calender. There is enough of them in America. And hopefully they can support the F1 race.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

The IRL/Indycar has turned into the very thing it initially stood against. It's now just a bad rip off of CART

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Season 9: Constructors' Champions