The Official 2010 Singapore Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

i agree that Webber and Alonso deserve the championship... for me Alonso a bit more

but if Jenson wins it it means he will do a hell of a job in the next 4 races and out perform his rivals, something that will make him deserving of the title..

but i still think he won last years Championship on merit... when he had the best car he won them all... something no Red Bull driver can say the same this year, this race was a good example of it

I actually think Alonso least deserves it of the top 4 drivers, largely because of Hockenheim. If he gets a margin of 7+ points, then it doesn't matter I suppose.

He's also made the most mistakes of the top 5 drivers.

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X (@ed24f1)

I'd argue Alonso has made less errors all season than Webber did on lap 1 of Valencia.

Well, the top 5 are almost tied, I find difficult to conclude who deserves the title. But One thing is true, Red Bull has had the fastest car, has got 12 pole positions and still, only 6 wins (5 McLaren and 4 Ferrari) and the title still far... They are the one losing more opportunities this season for various reasons, like team-mates 'war', lack of reliability, driver errors (Vettel has had a few hard to justify...)

The fact that RBR have failed to once again capitalize on their car advantage is a testimant to Ferrari and Mclaren, and their drivers. I cant help but think had either Mclaren driver, or Alonso been in that RBR, this would be done with. Webber has done great, but Vettel hasnt seemed to have ironed out his errors. A shame because he's clearly on Hamiltons level when it comes to raw speed.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Don't forget that Vettel could have one the first few races had it not been for reliability issues whilst leading the race, he'd have 50 more points if it weren't for that, and the championship table would look a lot different.

Yes.... but that's now getting into the realms of what if.

Vettel did have a little bit of poor luck with un-reliability early on, but if we going to play that game then Alonso's engine went pop in Malaysia, Mclaren made a mistake that caused Button to break down in Monaco, and then Vettel took him out at Belgium, Hamilton broke down at Barcelona and Hungary. Fair enough they weren't in winning positions at these times, but it's still points lost and they all count.

My point is that there are too many what if's to calculate. The fact is the championship is as it is, and mechanical retirements, unlucky collisions and cockups are all part of it.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 12:08PM by J i m.

Yes, and in terms of bad luck I think Alonso can really complain, only because of Safety Car timing, he would have got at least 15 points in Valencia and 12 in Silverstone but he got 4 in those 2 races, and there was no engine or reliability issues there.

I've always though that reliability is part of the game and Red Bull is partly responsible for that.

gav Wrote:
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> I'd argue Alonso has made less errors all season
> than Webber did on lap 1 of Valencia.

I'd disagree completely, but we've been through this before.

Also, two of the positions Webber lost weren't really his fault - based on the Race Edit he got hit from behind just before he went over the bridge.


Ali Wrote:
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> Yes, and in terms of bad luck I think Alonso can
> really complain, only because of Safety Car
> timing, he would have got at least 15 points in
> Valencia and 12 in Silverstone but he got 4 in
> those 2 races, and there was no engine or
> reliability issues there.
>
> I've always though that reliability is part of the
> game and Red Bull is partly responsible for that.

Alonso also gained a lot of points from safety cars earlier in the season, so I think it pretty much levelled out.

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X (@ed24f1)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 12:59PM by SchueyFan.

I don't think RBR's poor conversion rate ought to be criticised too much - this is a team who only won their first race last season with drivers who only won their first races in 2008 and 2009.

While the rate ought to be higher, I personally don't feel they can be expected to extract the maximum all the time when competing directly with McLaren and Ferrari, both who have fought for championships for many decades.

It's far too easy as a viewer to say they should have won this and done that, but experience is experience, and in many areas they'll still be learning (as highlighted beautifully at Istanbul and Silverstone).

> Alonso also gained a lot of points from safety
> cars earlier in the season, so I think it pretty
> much levelled out.

Where? In Monaco? he got only 8 points there and it was a "normal safety car period" to call it somehow.

In Valencia only the Ferraris were severely affected by the SC, the rest of the cars followed more or less the same and in Silverstone he had to do a drive through after the SC period and nearly 20 laps after the more than arguably incident. So he was the more severely affected by the SC again (from 4th to 14th). I don't think any SC period before can compensate the nearly 30 points he could have got in those 2 races.

But again, this is already past.

About the RBR inexperience, I could agree to some extent, but Brawn GP was also new to that last year and they managed the situation far much more better (Ross was not new but still). I think RBR has had some arrogant attitudes during the season and they should be more prudent in the way they face competition (and a little bit more humble, both RBR and Vettel as well)

Ali Wrote:
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> Where? In Monaco? he got only 8 points there and
> it was a "normal safety car period" to call it
> somehow.

Yeah, Monaco, but also Shanghai and Melbourne allowed him to catch back up to the pack.

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X (@ed24f1)

Yeah I do have to agree there. As much as Alonso lost out at Valencia he actually gained the same in Australia, Monaco and China.

In China and Monaco he can only blame himself for losing out on points.

Webber has been mr consistant all year though and has won when he could, over the year though Vettel has been the faster at most of the races but has made more errors and had more car problems.

Alonso is the only driver with number 1 status now but he has taken up the challenge and not given up at all.

Button has not matched lewis at all really all year in the dry, yes a few races he was close but has never really been ahead. He has had 2 DNF's to Lewis 4 and is still behind on points.

Who ever wins would have deserves it, its been a close year each driver has had ups and down really.

sorry for the off topic BUT :
jenson was waay faster than rubens last year with the best car (so he is definately better)
hamilton is really a lot faster than button (but inconsisten)
imagine how fast that williams car can actually go then. if lewis was in there probably williams would have been a regular podium contender. huh ? and i want so badly to see williams win races ..... AGAIN :p

Does not always work like that, and towards the end of last year Rubens was the faster driver at Brawn.

After Brazil 2009 Rubens did not drive a car until 2 weeks before the season, Button had tested the new tryes and down force etc.

Nico has been faster than MS this year at merc does that mean he would have thrashed him at Ferrari?

Button has done well at mclaren tbh driving a car that was never meant for him. Next year we will see if he is closer to Lewis even so Button has impressed me this year.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 06:16PM by marcl.

If Alonso wins the championship then he'll be very much rewarded for team orders. Red Bull, as much as they like Vettel, let their guys go on track therefore it needs to be either Red Bull or McLaren to have the driver's champion.

My opinion.

Guimengo Wrote:
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> If Alonso wins the championship then he'll be very
> much rewarded for team orders. Red Bull, as much
> as they like Vettel, let their guys go on track
> therefore it needs to be either Red Bull or
> McLaren to have the driver's champion.

Alonso has out-qualified Massa 11-4 (and Monaco is there, if not this could have probably been 12-3), has won 4 races, 7 podiums, 2 poles... Massa, 3 podiums. That´s it. You cannot justify their difference only because of Germany (that is what many people is doing) . McLaren and Red Bull have had their drivers tied at the top from the very begining. Ferrari also let their drivers race until mid season, when the difference was quite obvious (and only once! that is not something that Ferrari is doing sistematically this year).

Among the top three, Ferrari is the team with the biggest difference in performance between mates. I´m pretty sure that either McLaren or Red Bull in the same situation would do the same.

I agree... Hockenheim was a team tactic and it could've been Massa's first win but that doesn't change the fact that after T1 of lap 1 of Bahrain, Alonso's been having him under complete control

Problems with tyres or not that's the truth... And I'm a Massa fan

As someone said earlier, if Alonso wins the title by 7 points, then it will have been down to team-orders (unless Massa helps him again in the remaining races). Otherwise, it's irrelevant.

Ali Wrote:
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> Alonso has out-qualified Massa 11-4 (and Monaco is
> there, if not this could have probably been 12-3),
> has won 4 races, 7 podiums, 2 poles... Massa, 3
> podiums. That´s it. You cannot justify their
> difference only because of Germany (that is what
> many people is doing) . McLaren and Red Bull have
> had their drivers tied at the top from the very
> begining. Ferrari also let their drivers race
> until mid season, when the difference was quite
> obvious (and only once! that is not something that
> Ferrari is doing sistematically this year).
>
> Among the top three, Ferrari is the team with the
> biggest difference in performance between mates.
> I´m pretty sure that either McLaren or Red Bull
> in the same situation would do the same.

I can understand your point. However, there is obviously a line in the sand for most people where team orders are right and wrong. No-one discredits Kimi's 07 win even though Massa let him win Brazil.

Regardless of whether they were justified or not, Alonso's championship will be partly tainted if he wins by 7 points, purely because he gained those points artificially whereas other drivers didn't.

btw, Massa has had 4 podiums this year

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X (@ed24f1)