The Official 2010 Singapore Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

The things is that tyres are a lot more critical than they used to be. There's no margin. Perhaps it'd down to how close the field is, but the difference between getting the tyres to work and not is several rows on the grid.

Hill was the same in 1998 - he fell off the radar with the grooved slicks and narrower track, complaining that the car was moving around in the wind and had no confidence on turn-in as to what the car was going to do.

Mercedes also has a history of not being able to manage these slicks from last year - sure they could protect them (the opposite to this year), but they couldn't control the temperature at all for a large degree of the season.

I'm not defending him here in the slightest - he's been a big disappointment this year, regardless of the reason - but he's hardly the only one to complain this year or last that he couldn't get the tyres to work.

Wasnt a bad race. I was abit disapointed with Vettel not hassling Alonso more after his comments about taking it easy and being able to go much quicker...

But then I also think that race showed just how good Alonso can be. At no point during that race, other than the last lap was he under huge pressure. He always maintained a gap whenever needed. This is the Alonso i thought we would see when put in that red car! Since Germany (despite the mess of team orders!) he has been the best.

The incident with Lewis was pure racing incident but he's not out of it yet! he will struggle to beat Alonso and Webber, but he can. Likewise, Vettel has put himself back into it! I think depsite the last two races, Mclaren need to focus on Lewis. On pure pace I dont believe Button will beat Alonso. I think he can beat Vettel, and Webber but not Alonso.

My head no says Alonso will cruise to the title but my heart wants it to go to the wire with all 5, and ofc Button to win :p

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

How many title contenders we have might depends on whether South Korea will be ready or not.

The top 5 are still all within a race win of each other (so the top 5 are separated by 10 points on the old system, which is remarkable!) so it's still there for everyone. Kimi came back from from more than this in 2007, and back then there were 'only' 2 other contenders.

Still, I too think that Button is out of it. He hasn't had the better of Hamilton for several races now (Monza excepted, but given form you have to assume that that was down to Hamilton's setup mistake). It'll take retirements from all of his rivals, or 3 or 4 crazy races, for him to stand a chance in my opinion... which to be fair is the way it has been all season.

Every time I see the move between Hamilton and Webber I have the impression was more Webber's fault than Lewis. Lewis was quite ahead and there was no possible way for Webber to recover that position. In fact, I think he was not very smart, but was lucky. If not, Alonso would be leading the champ already.

On the other hand, Vettel has lost so many points this year... 7 poles but only 2 wins!! Red Bull is confident that they have the fastest car, no doubt, but Alonso seems to have the momentum and if the Alonso we see now can continue showing this consistency and not falling into the 2007 or early 2010 dynamics, he will be a though contender to fight. Besides, I have the impression Red Bull wants Vettel to win, not Webber, so I don't know how are they going to handle the situation.

McLaren has a similar problem, everyone knows that Lewis is faster but he is only slight ahead of Jenson in the champ, would anyone justify full support for Lewis now?

In that sense, Alonso has also a better picture. Massa is nowhere close to him nor in the standings nor in performance (although in Brazil he can be a good help...or maybe another rival ).

I think Lewis has proved the points system is working... two DNF's whilst Button has had two strongish races and yet Lewis still leads the team-battle....

Likewise, Alonso looked out of it, yet strong races, 1 dnf and two stunning wins have put him in a prime posistion, a posistion he hasnt been in since the season start!

Also, kudos to Glock for keeping his virgin up there for so long!!! mighty impressive driving.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Ali I think Mclaren do have to support both drivers for now, but if the race is cancelled and we go down to 3 races then maybe they have to support him. I still think its between Webber and Alonso now, the others need them to drop out a race. Button and Lewis just do not have the car to fight and the tracks coming up are simply not going to help them. Maybe in Brazil they will be ok but the the others no way.

Webber is more than capable of dropping out of a race. He's also more than capable of finishing 5th, as he may have done at the weekend were it not for the bold pit-strategy (which only worked because Rubens was faster than the McLarens at the critical point).

As for Alonso, he's shown the Ferrari has the pace on a fast track. He's shown he's got the speed on a tight and twisty street circuit. I'm not sure they'll be quickest at a sweeping aero and power dominated track (Suzuka) and of course he's running out of mileage on those engines.

With a gap of 7 points between first and second placed finishes, it's still very much still between 4 drivers at the moment - perhaps 5.

Like I said, the margin between Kimi and the top in 2007 was larger, and there were only 3 drivers taking points off of each other then - now there are 5.

I know what you mean Gav.

I am just looking at the mclaren's lack of speed and the tracks coming up. I just cannot see them finishing ahead by the gap they need to close in.

Out the 2 Lewis has the speed and this is new for him, in the past 2 fights he has been leading this time he is coming from behind.

I still think Alonso is the best bet now.

I think it's still too easy to start making assumptions.

The fact is that we still have 8 drivers still mathematically in the championship after 15 races with only 4 (possibly) to go. Mathematically Kubica can still win. We still have 5 drivers within 25 points (1 race victory). This is pretty much unprecedented...at least for a very long time.

Certainly it looks like Alonso has the momentum now and with minimal challenge from his team-mate. But as proved from Spa to Monza it only takes one race to change the picture of the championship and suddenly the momentum is with someone else.

People are starting to write off McLaren... but they hadn't been particularly good on high downforce circuits all year, yet we're coming up to at least 3 circuits that are going to play (at least to some extent) to their F-Duct. In fact at Suzuka, Interlagos and Abu Dhabi I could see it being quite finely poised between the Red Bull prowess on fast corners, McLaren's straight line speed and Ferrari's all round versatility. This isn't over by a long shot yet.

Similarly people are writing Button off, yet it'd only take another inspired set-up decision or tyre strategy to put him right back in it. Sure Hamilton is the faster driver, but he's also making more mistakes. Same with Vettel... ultimately he's probably quicker than Webber, but Webber is making less mistakes and also doing a better job at damage limitation.

Ultimately the end of this championship could come down to who makes the least mistakes.

J i m Wrote:
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> I think it's still too easy to start making
> assumptions.

Agree.

Besides, Red Bull is still the fastest car and despite the current form of Alonso it is going to be difficult to beat them at certain tracks.

With the old points system, the standings would be:

1. Webber 80
2. Alonso 77
3. Hamilton 75
4. Vettel 74
5. Button 72
6. Massa 51
7. Rosberg 47
8. Kubica 44
...

It seems to me like 5 drivers tied at the top.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 03:17PM by Ali.

One of my mates keeps looking at it the old way as well and says its closer than it looks.

about the MS thing.
i think that just his style of driving is adjusted to front row fights. In th pack the guys are more unexperienced (just like kobayashi) and that hurts him badly in several races. today for example he was doing not sooo bad and would have been in 7 th there if kobayashi didnt try to make an impossible overtake.
also another thing is that MS lost motivation this season. if you see the beggining of it he was always on the pace of rosberg and in 6-7 races he has finished 3 times ahead of his lot younger and on form team mate. but after canada and other pretty bad mid season races for MERCEDES (where rosberg also didnt get any good number of points) michael just lost his motivation i think. hakkinen was just like that about 10 years ago pretty good example is Nurbrugring 1999 where he had the championship fight on his hands but once he felt to 15- 16 th or so he was going with the tempo of the Arrows cars. The beggining of 2000 and the bigger part of the 2001 season just proves it.
Gve a champion a car which can fight for 5 th place in the best case and it just doesnt work. Once he has a car which can fight for podiums at least he will be on it. dont worry he'll get them :P

mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> Gve a champion a car which can fight for 5 th
> place in the best case and it just doesnt work.
> Once he has a car which can fight for podiums at
> least he will be on it. dont worry he'll get them
> :P

IIRC, Senna in '93 and Schumacher in '96 both performed much better with a very poor car, and in both seasons Williams had comfortably the best car.

Dave and Gav are probably right (as usual, dammit ) - The years I mentioned probably weren't his best, and he isn't the first driver to struggle with unfamiliar tyres.

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All I can say is I can't wait until Suzuka to find out what happens next in this thrilling battle.

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he's definitely not consistent enough... sometimes he's 3 tenths of Rosberg, sometimes 2 and sometimes 5....
tyre problems would explain a lot but not all of his inconsistency

however i think comparing this Michael with the past is not fair... this is the Michael that won everything and won races he wasn't supposed to and raced against drivers of different generations and beat them all. he retired and came back... he's got nothing to prove and he's probably not as hungry for a 5th place as he was 10 years ago...
his motivation will grow as soon as he sees that the car is capable to fight for victory, and i'm sure he will rise to the occasion and even if he won't reach the level he had in the past he can still fight against these guys, none of them are at that level he had before, so you could say he's fallen to their league with a weaker motivation (at the moment)....

i think he's done good races, Spa, wasn't that long ago and he did very good, he kept his fast teammate behind almost the whole race despite starting way behind....
i personally think he's pushing, probably not as Rosberg, but Rosberg has never won anything and his hunger for 4th places or 5th is much more than it is for Michael

there's an opportunity next year, nobody knows the tyres and it could alter the order a bit as the grooves did







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 04:39AM by Slash.

I'm not really surprised with what is going on with MS. I expected him to be beated by Rosberg but still, the difference is too big (both in points and lap time). I didn't expect Jordan to score 30ppg when he returned to play with the Wizards in 2002 (about 40 years old) and I didn't expect MS to win the championship with the current level and after 3 years off (and almost without tests).
But it is true that his results are worse than I expected. I'm not fully convinced he'll continue (neither if Mercedes can keep a driver that performs at the level Michael is doing) but we should still respect him as the formula1 record man (like Nieto or Agostini in motorcycling).

Slash Wrote:
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>



Say what you like; he clearly has some of the talent in there still

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I might have a punt at Button back to back. Just have a feeling Ferrari's engine woes, Webbers luck, Vettels hothead, Hamiltons form will all cause them at least one more upset.

Whilst Button solidly finishes all the remaining races, I think he is the dark horse bet here.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

danm Wrote:
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> I might have a punt at Button back to back. Just
> have a feeling Ferrari's engine woes, Webbers
> luck, Vettels hothead, Hamiltons form will all
> cause them at least one more upset.
>
> Whilst Button solidly finishes all the remaining
> races, I think he is the dark horse bet here.

I hope he doesn't win it.

Doesn't deserve this years title, and won last years by default.

In the dry he's been comprehensively been beaten by Lewis, and would be akin to Irvine winning in 1999 instead of Schumacher.

Hasn't really done much since his victories early on, which were deserved mind.

I hope Alonso or Hamilton win, and that's coming from a former Hamilton hater.

And i also hope Senna gets dropped, he's a waste of space if Kliens performance is anthing to go by, over a second a lap slower in quali?

Webber and Alonso deserve it most IMHO.

But these last few races are going to be like four games of mario kart.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it