how good a sport is Jenson Button?

LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

Rubens had tees made for Button, Webber, Schumacher and Hamilton. :D

yeah i know, i follow Rubens on Twitter




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

Tom Cruise did a 1:44.2! But it was in the Kia, lol.

if I was Button I would print one saying "You didnt beat me"

Speaking about Jenson's sportsman ship; Anyone had a read of this?

Quote
ESPNF1
Jenson Button has accepted a portion of the responsibility for Michael Schumacher's testing return to Formula One this season.

Schumacher's Mercedes car is based on the Brawn GP 2010 car, designed to accommodate the world champion's preference for understeer.
...

[en.espnf1.com]

Never has a driver ever(I might be wrong) spoken about the fact that they are responsible for someone else's bad performances in this season. Although this does make you think, if JB had stayed at Brawn/Mercedes, where would he have been on the championship tables because clearly the car was designed to his specifications. Could he have been leading?

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Monza972
Although this does make you think, if JB had stayed at Brawn/Mercedes, where would he have been on the championship tables because clearly the car was designed to his specifications. Could he have been leading?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

OK, seriously. The Merc is weak in many areas compared to RBR, McLaren and Ferrari. Top speed, aerodynamics, tyre management (odd given last year, even in Rubens' hands)... but when it comes down to it, it's just not fast enough.

Yeah the car isn't designed for Schumacher, and while Rosberg likes his car a little more neutral, and has a much smoother style than Schumacher he's still got a tendency for a more oversteer to be built into the car.

The change in Barcelona didn't change the car. All it allowed for was for the weight to be shifted around to a larger extent, giving more setup options. The core issue still remains - the car isn't the car that either driver wants - that will have to wait until the 2011 car hits the track.

I dont believe in cars being designed for drivers.

Setup, otherwise.

When a car is on the computer or in the windtunnel then general figures will pop out (in a windtunnel at least): Centre of Pressure, Pressure distribtution all in various attitudes. When wanting to analyse balance, they are the general things you want to know. But these things are heavily related to the tyres and the way the car uses them, and also weight.

I think I said earlier in the year, that car was tailormade for Jenson. and I take that back. There is no such thing IMO. Tyres are key. A car is designed for tyres of a given spec, it is then upto driver, and setup optimization to get the most out of the tyres.

I do believe JB would be better placed than both Nico and Schumacher, but I want to marry Jenson so I would say that, right?

It's clear Merc dont understand the tyres and sadly thats been the case for many many years with the Brackley team. Last year there were several instances when the drivers struggled or even when the team got the choices wrong.

Example, Abu Dhabi; Jenson was meant to run Hard-Hard-Soft. If you remember, he struggled on the harder tyre but with the soft was probably the fastest on track (maybe 2nd). He gained so much on that tyre that he was able to chase Webber. For whatever reason the team believed it was the weaker tyre but infact it was by far the quickest tyre for JB at least! It happened several times in 09.

IMO the car is okay. Its just the team dont understand the tyres and so any updates are either giving adverse effects or just not having an effect at all. In the windtunnel it might say more downforce but if they dont understand how to use their tyres then that more aero-loading could be detrimental to the tyre useage. Without testing its difficult to find a clear solution.

edit - he's the best sportsman in the history of sport. fact and i dare you to challenge !

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2010 08:08PM by chet.

Monza972 Wrote:
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> Speaking about Jenson's sportsman ship; Anyone had
> a read of this?
>
>
> Jenson Button has accepted a portion of the
> responsibility for Michael Schumacher's testing
> return to Formula One this season.
>
> Schumacher's Mercedes car is based on the Brawn GP
> 2010 car, designed to accommodate the world
> champion's preference for understeer.
> ...
>
> [en.espnf1.com]
> 7.html?CMP=OTC-RSS
>
>
> Never has a driver ever(I might be wrong) spoken
> about the fact that they are responsible for
> someone else's bad performances in this season.
> Although this does make you think, if JB had
> stayed at Brawn/Mercedes, where would he have been
> on the championship tables because clearly the car
> was designed to his specifications. Could he have
> been leading?

well, he could've been a bit ahead of current drivers, not because of performance, but consistency, he's clearly one of the best in race trim and with a car that you feel comfortable and confident he could've achieved some good results, but as gav points out, thecar is not fast at al so in the championship he wouldn't be in the top4

it was a great move to switch teams from Jenson, it didn't looked like that 7 months ago.. but it was well worth it

yeah he might not be in the lead and he might not win it, but at least he's fighting for it, and has as many victories as his highly rated teammate, who many thought would wipe the floor with him... switching cars and teams after being a long time ago with the previous and he's still doing a great job... the way i see it, he's been a great contribution to Mclaren, making them the best team atm in F1

Agreed Slash. Mclaren have the best lineup since Senna nad Prost imo.

Mika and DC were good, very good but as much as I like Mika I rate Lewis higher, and Jenson higher than DC.

Alonso nad Lewis were.... explosive and the boy from Spain couldnt stand the pressure so had a hissy fit.

Kimi and DC... well one was simply brilliant and mind boggling quick, the other had a square chin and was quick every now and then :p

If RBR can keep it together as a team, they are not far off imo. I hate Vettel but he's sh*t quick :p ss quick as Lewis over one lap. And when Webber is having a good weekend he's unstoppable. Its just as a team they dont put it all together in one weekend. Good for F1 though cuz it means others have a chance :p

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

If Button stayed at Brawn, that would have have been career suicide. Given how not so fast this years' Merc is, it would have seemed it was the car, not Jenson's skill behind it that won him last years WC. People would have been fast to jump that bandwagon.

However, in McLaren, he has just maintained, if not, increased his stock value as a top line driver. Sure, not a Hamilton or a Vettel, but they are in a different league. Yes, the McLaren is another good car, but pretty much everyone thought the Brawn car was the winner, not so much Jenson's skill.

As for 2010, he isn't doing that badly at all! Considering the team has been built around Lewis!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

chet Wrote:
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> Agreed Slash. Mclaren have the best lineup since
> Senna nad Prost imo.

> snip

> Mika and DC were good, very good but as much as I
> like Mika I rate Lewis higher, and Jenson higher
> than DC.

> and snip

> Kimi and DC... well one was simply brilliant and
> mind boggling quick, the other had a square chin
> and was quick every now and then :p

Essentially agree with you, but would you rate Kimi higher than Mika?

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Ofcourse, I agree with the point that his move to McLaren was the best thing but this article made me think the ifs and the buts of it. He's a great guy and its good to see him finally having some luck career-wise after that disastrous problems with the Williams situation.

And yes, that comment of mine is pretty stupid considering how fast the F1 world moves these days. I mean one small change puts you in the midfield.

Quote
Slash
the way i see it, he's been a great contribution to Mclaren, making them the best team atm in F1

Don't know whether it's his involvement or the change up in the Team Boss to Whitmarsh but it's certainly made the McLaren team more media friendly this year.

I do wonder though, if he had stayed at Williams instead of jumping, he would have been there during the glory burst of 2001-2003.

Would he have won a race then?

Probably not, but it sure is interesting to think how his career may have branched from there. He would most likely have gotten many podiums.

Who knows, it could have delayed a move to Renault for 2004/05/06.

Heck, even Ferrari were having rumours during 2004.

Pointless points, but thought provoking.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

senninho Wrote:
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> Essentially agree with you, but would you rate
> Kimi higher than Mika?

Kimi had the greater natural talent, but Mika was the more complete driver.

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If Kimi put his head in it IMO he'd be even better than Alonso and Lewis. I would certainly say, over a single lap Kimi is king. Kimi has so much wasted talent imo! At least in F1. The guy has so so much potential! I think Kimi could have become one of F1's greatest and exceeded Alonso, Lewis and Vettel by a long way. Instead he's become F1's greatest what if. A great shame!

I would rate him higher than Mika, but yup, Mika was the far more complete driver.

About the what if's with Button... If i could havve decided where his career went I wouldnt change it. BAR, more so Richards saved his career. Richards picked Button up dead in the water and made him what he is. So many races of his have gone un-noticed from 03,05,06 and 07. All that's remembered is 04 because of results. But I would argue 2007 along with 09 was his best season (to date). Being in awful cars made him the driver he is now and I think Richards for being the loving team boss Button needed at the time.

If he went to Ferrari/Mclaren/Stayed with Frank then Button would have been a #2. I am 100% sure of that. I dont think he would have been quick as Montoya or Ralf in a Williams, or as quick as any driver in a top team at the time. Had he stayed at Renault for 03 (or gone there in 04) he would have been slaughted by Alonso or Trulli (before being sacked Trulli was epic in 04, nobody would have been him!!!). Beating Jacques was his confidence boost, and the one he needed. 2004 bought him close to his win, and 2005 bought him back to reality but he did his best to put that BAR 007 in places it shouldnt have been with 06 similar. But as I said, 07 stands out as a season for me.

As a driver Button has improved every year imo except for 2008 where he was sakon quick imo... He was pure and simple shite who wanted to lose his front wing at every opportunity.

I never doubted he'd be champion, it was always going to be a question of time. And whilst he had "the car" he bloody well made it work!

From now his career is going to be interesting... Both Lewis and Jenson are at their best atm but up against Alonso and a Vettel who has more to come. To win, Button is going to need something special, because these Hamilton and Vettel lads are crazy quick!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Quote
chet
Instead he's become F1's greatest what if.

I'm not sure you can label an F1 champion a "what if" at all, let alone one of the greatest "what ifs".

Still, while Kimi was more than capable of driving way beyond himself (just look at 2005), Hakkinen had to cope with Schumacher in his prime - not only that, but he beat Schumacher at his prime - Spa 2000, in perfect Schumacher conditions, encapsulates that brilliantly. For me he's not better than Schumacher, and by a long way (he wasn't consistent enough or imposing enough), but over those brief 3 years (though overall with a better car, it has to be said) he was the guy to beat.

I can't think of many nicer world champions though.

Buttons styles isnt 'crazy quick'. Referring to the last big Button vs Lewis debate months ago, button being Prost, Lewis being Senna.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Instead he's become F1's greatest what if.
>
>
> I'm not sure you can label an F1 champion a "what
> if" at all, let alone one of the greatest "what
> ifs".
>
> Still, while Kimi was more than capable of driving
> way beyond himself (just look at 2005),

I think he could have achieved more, its just he seemed bored quickly.

Hakkinen had to cope with Schumacher in his prime - not
> only that, but he beat Schumacher at his prime -
> Spa 2000, in perfect Schumacher conditions,
> encapsulates that brilliantly. For me he's not
> better than Schumacher, and by a long way (he
> wasn't consistent enough or imposing enough), but
> over those brief 3 years (though overall with a
> better car, it has to be said) he was the guy to
> beat.
>
> I can't think of many nicer world champions
> though.

Yup! He was amazing. I think the reason I liked him so much was because he seemed more able to take the fight to Michael than Hill or Jacques. He won two amazing championships and produced the 2000 season which for me remains my favourite. I still think on any given day, Kimi would be qucker than Mika. I would maybe go as far as saying for raw pace Kimi has to be one of, if not the best over the last 20 years.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL