Senna dropped for British Grand Prix!

Obviously this is about money, if it were any less than $5million sponsorship, I would instantly choose Klien over him, at least Klien has some talent. How many laps into the race until Yamamoto bins his HRT.

redbulljack14 Wrote:
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> Obviously this is about money, if it were any less
> than $5million sponsorship, I would instantly
> choose Klien over him, at least Klien has some
> talent. How many laps into the race until Yamamoto
> bins his HRT.

Senna does have talent, he just started very late into racing because naturally his family wouldn't allow him to race for 10 years after Ayrton's death. Before that he raced, Ayrton even said how fast he was.

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I think that bit was just his uncle being very nice. Bruno has shown he has talent on his own, he won the lower formulas and got unlucky on GP2. You can't deny his talent after some of the races he has had. He will not come near his uncle in skill but then again very few can even come so close, but still he looks to have enough to warrant a better drive and hopeful a few victories!

Guimengo Wrote:
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> Did anyone notice Sakon leaning his head more and
> more as the session progressed? I wonder if he can
> stand the whole race.

I noted him holding his head at some weird angles yes.... but I also remember him doing that at other times as well. He may not be a peak F1 fitness but I think it's also just the way he is. Alesi always had a distinctive way he moved his head, and held the wheel as well.

msater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> redbulljack14 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Obviously this is about money, if it were any
> less
> > than $5million sponsorship, I would instantly
> > choose Klien over him, at least Klien has some
> > talent. How many laps into the race until
> Yamamoto
> > bins his HRT.
>
> Senna does have talent, he just started very late
> into racing because naturally his family wouldn't
> allow him to race for 10 years after Ayrton's
> death. Before that he raced, Ayrton even said how
> fast he was.


I wasn't saying Senna doesn't have talent, I was only saying that Yamamoto doesn't. I know Bruno has talent.

Either way, I think we all know Chandhok will be HRT's lead driver this weekend.

Quote
Guimengo
I think that bit was just his uncle being very nice. Bruno has shown he has talent on his own,

His lower formula was littered with him crashing or going off from well-placed positions on lap 1.

Even now, 5 years on, his career is somewhat chequered. He's clearly got decent speed judging from his qualifying times from lower formulae, yet from the races I saw both in F1 and lower, his racing has been very, very poor. Should he be trying to race superior cars on lap 1? In theory yes, but with a financially-challenged team with little in the way of spares, no... pure racer instinct has to have a degree of sense included.

Given a team like Sauber, STR or maybe Force India, he may show more (in a Diniz sort of way), but so far, he's shown sod-all to suggest he'll do anything in a better car than what he's done in his career so far - be half-quick, but crash a lot and ruin his entire weekend.

For me, he's got no more potential than Petrov so far, and I don't rate Petrov at all. He's got to pick his game up massively if he wants to stay in F1. Currently if I were a mid-field team-boss I'd run a mile from him as he looks a danger at the back, let alone the midfield.

In my opinion he's at best a Verstappen without the natural ability. Potential to win a race in the top car, but he'll never win more than 2 or 3. His best prospect is the Patrese/Verstappen/Irvine role - a support driver in the best team for a far superior potential World Champion.

Basically, a determined pay driver without the sponsorship who may get a break, but won't have the talent to do much with it if it comes. A strong lower-formulae guy who suddenly finds he's not good enough when he's lifted into the top category.

I think his performance in GP2 at Monaco in 2008 alone shows that he does have the talent and potential. His tendency to crash and make mistakes a lot can - partly at least - be attributed to his lack of experience in single-seaters and effectively late career start. Not an excuse at this level of course, but it's something which surely will be ironed out quickly as he gains more experience.

I think he has much more natural ability than Verstappen did. Patrese has been mentioned, and a comparison with Patrese is more appropriate IMO, since Patrese was a genuinely gifted driver who made a lot of silly mistakes. If Bruno gets into a decent team, I can see him easily reaching the level Patrese did in his Williams and early Brabham years.

However good or bad he actually is, I don't think it's fair to write him off as untalented or having no potential until we've seen him in a much better car than the HRT.
I do agree that he needs to up his game from what we've seen so far, but I also believe he can and will do so.

---

Well, personally I didn't rate Massa at all in his Sauber days either - in fact I thought he was a bloody liability - so I'd imagine every driver has the *potential* to prove us wrong, though of course they may not. We don't know. I mean, some drivers pitch up and look appalling and don't last - I'm thinking Inoue, Ide, Rosset etc. - I don't think Petrov and Senna can be fairly placed in that category to be honest. Then again some drivers pitch up and look amazing out of the box - I'm thinking Hamilton, Kubica, Vettel, Ayrton, Schumacher etc, and I don't think Petrov and Bruno fit there either. All I'm saying though is that drivers who fall somewhere in between appearing amazingly brilliant and amazingly awful from the outset (which would be most of the grid in my opinion) still have the potential to stick around and develop and mature, or just stick around anyway - look at Andrea De Cesaris for example. I won't write off these people so quickly, especially only half-way through their first year.

Though I was a bit critical of Yakamoto a few posts back, wasn't I..? :\

Quote
EC83
However good or bad he actually is, I don't think it's fair to write him off as untalented or having no potential until we've seen him in a much better car than the HRT.

Yeah, I think the Rothbury coverage and plentiful consumption of red wine last night led me get away from myself.

He does have potential, but it's been a year or 2 since he's shown any of it. He should be blowing Chandok away. Perhaps he's feeling the weight of pressure from the name now that he's at the highest level.

zulu_85 Wrote:
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> Well, personally I didn't rate Massa at all in his
> Sauber days either - in fact I thought he was a
> bloody liability.

Many people within F1 thought the same. Villeneuve once accused him of being incapable of driving in a straight line....or something to that effect. Don't forget that he got stood down for a race in his debut season once, though that was as much as about as circumnavigating a penalty he'd got for some moronic move he'd done. Then it was a year out as a Ferrari test driver because at the time Sauber's nerves couldn't take any more punishment.

He's had plenty of comedic moments since as well... but in general he's kept up a steady curve of improvement, he's overcome his critics expectations so many times, he's got to within a knat's wing to a championship and he generally had the better of Kimi at Ferrari.

All in all... Massa has been a pretty good success story.

Yeah.. Not many can improve as much as he does, also keep in mind that at least his speed was never questioned.. It was what impressed Peter Sauber in the first place....


On topic, sorry if I'm late on this, but I read on another forum that Buemi said this weekend was Yamamoto's birthday and his mom gave him that gift, can anyone confirm, I haven't read anything officially about it, but that could say a lot about the current financial status of the team.

For next year I could see Bruno moving to Sauber to replace Pedro. The top teams will all be taken, mid table teams most likely too (Force India, Williams, Renault) so Sauber looks like the best option from the remaining squads.

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> zulu_85 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, personally I didn't rate Massa at all in
> his
> > Sauber days either - in fact I thought he was a
> > bloody liability.
>
> Many people within F1 thought the same. Villeneuve
> once accused him of being incapable of driving in
> a straight line....or something to that effect.
> Don't forget that he got stood down for a race in
> his debut season once, though that was as much as
> about as circumnavigating a penalty he'd got for
> some moronic move he'd done. Then it was a year
> out as a Ferrari test driver because at the time
> Sauber's nerves couldn't take any more
> punishment.
>
> He's had plenty of comedic moments since as
> well... but in general he's kept up a steady curve
> of improvement, he's overcome his critics
> expectations so many times, he's got to within a
> knat's wing to a championship and he generally had
> the better of Kimi at Ferrari.
>
> All in all... Massa has been a pretty good success
> story.

Oh absolutely, I mention my disdain for him at the start of his career but he's completely won me over since

Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For next year I could see Bruno moving to Sauber
> to replace Pedro. The top teams will all be taken,
> mid table teams most likely too (Force India,
> Williams, Renault) so Sauber looks like the best
> option from the remaining squads.


Possibly, Pedro is 39 now and hasn't had a great season to be honest. I can see this being his last season, especially now it's 15-0 in terms of points to Kobayashi despite being 6-4 up in the qualifying battle. I'm hoping Senna drives for a half-decent team next season.

Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For next year I could see Bruno moving to Sauber
> to replace Pedro. The top teams will all be taken,
> mid table teams most likely too (Force India,
> Williams, Renault) so Sauber looks like the best
> option from the remaining squads.


Possibly, Pedro is 39 now and hasn't had a great season to be honest. I can see this being his last season, especially now it's 15-0 in terms of points to Kobayashi despite De la Rosa being 6-4 up in the qualifying battle. I'm hoping Senna drives for a half-decent team next season.

Let's just let Senna get on with his development in F1. He's a rookie in the sport in by far the worst car on the grid. Cut him some slack.

As for De La Rosa, I was annoyed when he got the seat at Sauber. He hadn't raced full-time in years, and that seat could've and should've gone to Heidfeld.

---

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Incident 2k9 Wrote:
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> Let's just let Senna get on with his development
> in F1. He's a rookie in the sport in by far the
> worst car on the grid. Cut him some slack.
>
> As for De La Rosa, I was annoyed when he got the
> seat at Sauber. He hadn't raced full-time in
> years, and that seat could've and should've gone
> to Heidfeld.

+1 on both

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Lol and after I compliment Massa he goes and puts in that shocker at Silverstone.....doh.

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for De La Rosa, I was annoyed when he got the
> seat at Sauber. He hadn't raced full-time in
> years, and that seat could've and should've gone
> to Heidfeld.


Heidfeld should be in a much better race seat than Sauber, maybe Merc if Schumi calls it a day at the end of the season.

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol and after I compliment Massa he goes and puts
> in that shocker at Silverstone.....doh.


To be fair to Felipe, Alonso yet again was stupid and didn't avoid contact. His race was very screwed and he had to overdrive his car. He did get fastest lap.