Plz someone throw soft cotton pads at Hermann Tilke

Simple track design rules.

1) Give a 3-year-old a crayon and a bit of paper.
2) Allow him to randomly scribble.
3) Remove the crayon, retain the paper.
4) Submit for approval as a Formula 1 track design.

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I don't care what Nick says personally. It's a Tilke track and it's got it written all over it. Trade mark straight, no flow to the corners at all, random kinks for no reason.

China can give good racing, but that doesn't make it a good track.

The only decent track designed by Tilke has been Singapore (bumpy, challenging, punishing... how a street course ought to be... though not an ideal track for overtaking), yet he was only involved in the initial stages and it was finished off by KBR. Other than that he's done what... turn 8 at Turkey? The esses at Sepang? Anything else?

Also, since it's right beside the harbour, it's likely it's been built on reclaimed land, and will therefore be as flat as a snooker table. Joy.

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Nickv Wrote:
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> For crying out loud. You bunch are the most short
> sighted people I've ever had to suffer reading
> posts from in my entire life. Not an inch has been
> driven on that track and already it has been
> classed as crap. One race has been driven and the
> rules are classed as crap. A bit more of logical
> thinking, sense and patience would be great.

Fair point and you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

Most of us here have jumped to the conclusion that it will bad since most of Tilke's modern tracks (bar Sepang & Singapore) are atrocious to watch. Bahrain was nice when we got the extended layout used this year, the character (what was there of it) went. It was fast straights and then Mickey Mouse corners for just one part which give us 2nd/3rd gear corners which do not comprehend to the enjoyment of the viewers since there isn't overtaking (that's down to several other factors but let's just discard that for the moment)

Turkey, it's a nice looking anti-clockwise track which gives drivers a pain in the neck to navigate and get right which is good. However, massive amounts of run-offs. For the first year it looked nice and was well played out. The other 3 years it has had depleting audience every year. However, the corners are challenging I'll give you that but otherwise, it's just a plain ordinary race track.

Shanghai, well that's just sinking.

Abu Dhabi just plain boring too imo. Only the dusk effect looks nice on it otherwise, it's just another tarmac with a load of runs off. Same story as Bahrain and Turkey. Similar pattern emerging now isn't it?

However, the biggest similarity is the lack of elevation changes. We need some ups and downs to make the driver work the socks of the car and not going out for a sunday evening drive with the intent of preserving the tyres.

Singapore and Sepang; they are visibly challenging. Sepang has a lack of run offs on areas of the track and it flows from corner to corner with elevation changes in each bit of the sectors. It also encourages overtaking. Singapore is the one of the best tracks simply because of two things; bumps and barriers. Make one mistake and you're gone. It's these kinds of tracks we should be getting in the sport and not which have been built in a multimillion pound hotel with tons of money when all that's gone into it is a pencil, ruler and a rubber. Us fans deserve more.

But that's my viewpoint on it. Who knows come the Korean GP I might be wrong.

In a way I do feel sorry for him, as it has been stated on many occasions his hands are very much tied on what he can get away with when designing these circuits. As the majority, if not all, of these new circuits that he has designed have a large government backing, he is under enormous pressure to translate the powers-that-be's wishes into the track itself. Shanghai for example is based on a chinese symbol (I'm sure someone can correct me or point to which one exactly without looking it up) because that was in the laundry list given to him to work to.

When someone is giving you said laundry list on every condition under the sun it must meet, you're obviously going to get to a point where you don't really have much to play with. However, I do agree that some fresh blood may break the chain on circuit design, as I suspect with the above in play he's probably lost the will to live by now.

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Perhaps the thread should be renamed to "Plz someone force Hermann Tilke to sit through an entire Grand Prix at one of his tracks"

I'm sure this has been done to death here, but I haven't been posting recently: What again was the point of the new section at Bahrain? Seriously, where was the justification? Any links to official FIA documents or whatever would be much appreciated, I haven't been paying attention recently and I'm just confused as to why an extra 7 corners of pure tedium were present this year?

F1, without wanting to overlabour a point that has been repeatedly been made over the years, has gone a bit shite. Still though, my friend and I were looking at the schedule earlier and you can almost pinpoint straight off which races will be worth watching in the hope of some excitement: Melbourne, Sepang (so long as it's a monsoon), Monaco, Montreal, Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Suzuka, Sao Paulo. Hermann is depending on rain. There's an interesting interloper you could add: Hungaroring. It has become more interesting in recent years, but I fear the new fuel rules will relegate it to the procession of old.

Unfortunately, between safety and advancements in technology, the bottom-clenching corners and overtake fests of old are done. You can do many things in life, but you can't go back in time. Hard as it is to accept, F1 needs to look at where racing will be exciting in the future rather than hoping they can recapture the past.

@ Monil: Whether Tilkes tracks are good or not was not my point. What I meant is that the track was judged by a 2D map that has no context whatsoever on it. For all you know there is a 30 meter drop somewhere at the track. For all you know it might be a track that provides similar racing as in Malaysia, which is classed as a pretty good track, compared to the other Tilke tracks.
The same goes for the rules. One race has been driven with the new rules on a track that usually doesn't provide that great racing anyway and then the rules are slated. As Chet said, we've been blessed with Melbourne as a season opener. I can't even remember a boring race there. If we had the season opener at Melbourne this year, I doubt the outcry would've been that big.

I'm just saying that you need to give it a chance, both the rules and the track. If after six or seven races the races are still boring, then yes, you have a point in that something might need changing, but not now.

I'm in no way a fan of most of Tilkes tracks. I don't like his corners and I don't like all the run off. Fact is that he indeed has limits on freedom. The FIA wants run offs. Every single time a part of a track is redesigned, it gets a shitload of run off. Pouhon, the new part at Silverstone, Barcelona, just to name a few. And none of them had Tilke involved. It's todays standard in F1 and there's nothing we can do about it and neither can he.

@97kirkc: Yes, the Shanghai track represents some Chinese symbol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2010 08:38AM by Nickv.

Quote
Nickv
As Chet said, we've been blessed with Melbourne as a season opener. I can't even remember a boring race there. If we had the season opener at Melbourne this year, I doubt the outcry would've been that big.

I'm more than happy to eat my words if proven otherwise, but while Melbourne will be infinitely better than Sakhir, it hardly bodes well for the majority of races this year. I'm quite willing to say that other than the new-comers, we'll see less overtaking this year than last... and the past few seasons haven't hardly been full of epic races (just close title battles, last year excluded).

97kirkc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In a way I do feel sorry for him, as it has been
> stated on many occasions his hands are very much
> tied on what he can get away with when designing
> these circuits. As the majority, if not all, of
> these new circuits that he has designed have a
> large government backing, he is under enormous
> pressure to translate the powers-that-be's wishes
> into the track itself. Shanghai for example is
> based on a chinese symbol (I'm sure someone can
> correct me or point to which one exactly without
> looking it up) because that was in the laundry
> list given to him to work to.
>
> When someone is giving you said laundry list on
> every condition under the sun it must meet, you're
> obviously going to get to a point where you don't
> really have much to play with. However, I do agree
> that some fresh blood may break the chain on
> circuit design, as I suspect with the above in
> play he's probably lost the will to live by now.

Thats very true. Tilke was once the guy who wrote the article in F1 racing about the ultimate track with all the best corners. If it were upto him I bet he would design something similar. Like you say these tracks have huge government backing so I suspect they will always be, "change this, that and those"

Its like the shaikh who designed the first A1-GP car. It wasnt designed in a windtunnel or computer. It was a rich dude who wanted to give life to his childhood car doodles! If I remember right, Dallara came to him with the car and he just plain and simple said, "No, I want this ... "

I would say track design is similar.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I must say, this is the funniest post I've seen in this forum in a long time. I lol'd, a lot.

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