its confirmed - mercedes buy brawn
Posted by marwood82
The interesting thing if Macca sign JB would be how Lewis would cope with officially being #2 in the team, at least according to how the numbering of the cars would have to work.
In reality though, as Gav says, Lewis would probably whoop Jenson easily over a season, so the prospect of Jenson-Lewis is a pretty dull one compared to Kimi-Lewis.
In reality though, as Gav says, Lewis would probably whoop Jenson easily over a season, so the prospect of Jenson-Lewis is a pretty dull one compared to Kimi-Lewis.
As always Gav, a well rounded fair post. Your last paragraph is something many have missed. Even I am supprised Button decided this knowing how good Lewis can and has been. He might have been at the back in 2007 but I doubt Button missed the championship battle!!!! If he has real intentions of going to Mclaren he is indeed brave. They said 09 would make or break Button, it made him, but what will '10 hold if at Mclaren?
Other than a few predictions I reckon to say Lewis would destroy Button would be wrong. We thought Kimi would destroy Massa, we thought Alonso would destroy Lewis. Predictions at this stage are an interesting talking point but very useless and often proved wrong.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Other than a few predictions I reckon to say Lewis would destroy Button would be wrong. We thought Kimi would destroy Massa, we thought Alonso would destroy Lewis. Predictions at this stage are an interesting talking point but very useless and often proved wrong.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Lets not forget that Jenson has the ability to drive the car quite well on a heavy fuel load. Barichello in comparison struggled on the same fuel loads as Button this year. Going into a year when the cars will be starting with a lot more fuel than in previous years, surely this will play to Button's advantage?
Lewis is also quite a ragged (but fast) driver. If anyone is likely to have high tyre wear or punctures then it's going to be him. Jenson on the other hand is quite smooth (too much, sometimes, not getting enough heat into the tyres). I really think this will play into his hands next year though because the last thing you want to do is destroy your tyres in the first stint with a full tank of fuel onboard.
I really dont see why everyone thinks Lewis is going to shatter Button next year, provided they're in the same car.
Circuit Thermalito
Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)
Lewis is also quite a ragged (but fast) driver. If anyone is likely to have high tyre wear or punctures then it's going to be him. Jenson on the other hand is quite smooth (too much, sometimes, not getting enough heat into the tyres). I really think this will play into his hands next year though because the last thing you want to do is destroy your tyres in the first stint with a full tank of fuel onboard.
I really dont see why everyone thinks Lewis is going to shatter Button next year, provided they're in the same car.
Circuit Thermalito
Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)
Slash Wrote:
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> anyways where are you guys getting this facts that
> Hamilton would beat Jenson easily?
Opinions, not facts.
As many GPG regulars will have spotted, I'm far from a Hamilton fan. I think he's a fantastically talented driver, one of those rare breeds, but I disliked his attitude at the start of 2009 and I disliked the media shield he used in 2007 and 2008, which was wonderfully managed, giving the illusion of a squeaky clean kid, which we know is far removed the character that so blatantly emerged at the start of this campaign. That said, I did warm to him more as 2009 wore on.
I appreciate Button as the driver he is, that he's so different to others in style, but I think that when things aren't perfect for him, he struggles far more than others - when that bit extra is needed, his style holds him back. That's not a criticism - it won him the title in 2009 after all - I just feel that when he's up against someone with the ability of Hamilton, he'll have to dig deeper a lot more often than he did with Barrichello... and I doubt he'll be able to make the difference.
Regarding McLaren, it's probably unfair to judge post 2008 McLaren against pre 2008 McLaren. While there's little to suggest much has changed since Ron left, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's hardly a bad start that they've been scouting Kimi to partner Lewis and are now looking to partner the new world champion with the outgoing world champion. Either way, they'd have 2 of the last 3 world champions, so hardly indicative of a 1-driver stance.
Heikki was disadvantaged at points in 2009 regarding new components coming to the car, but that was the same through most of the grid. Things were moving so quickly, and if you only had the parts for 1 car, the driver who represents the best opportunity to deliver results with them (or at a later stage of the season, he who has more points) will naturally get 1st refusal.
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> anyways where are you guys getting this facts that
> Hamilton would beat Jenson easily?
Opinions, not facts.
As many GPG regulars will have spotted, I'm far from a Hamilton fan. I think he's a fantastically talented driver, one of those rare breeds, but I disliked his attitude at the start of 2009 and I disliked the media shield he used in 2007 and 2008, which was wonderfully managed, giving the illusion of a squeaky clean kid, which we know is far removed the character that so blatantly emerged at the start of this campaign. That said, I did warm to him more as 2009 wore on.
I appreciate Button as the driver he is, that he's so different to others in style, but I think that when things aren't perfect for him, he struggles far more than others - when that bit extra is needed, his style holds him back. That's not a criticism - it won him the title in 2009 after all - I just feel that when he's up against someone with the ability of Hamilton, he'll have to dig deeper a lot more often than he did with Barrichello... and I doubt he'll be able to make the difference.
Regarding McLaren, it's probably unfair to judge post 2008 McLaren against pre 2008 McLaren. While there's little to suggest much has changed since Ron left, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's hardly a bad start that they've been scouting Kimi to partner Lewis and are now looking to partner the new world champion with the outgoing world champion. Either way, they'd have 2 of the last 3 world champions, so hardly indicative of a 1-driver stance.
Heikki was disadvantaged at points in 2009 regarding new components coming to the car, but that was the same through most of the grid. Things were moving so quickly, and if you only had the parts for 1 car, the driver who represents the best opportunity to deliver results with them (or at a later stage of the season, he who has more points) will naturally get 1st refusal.
Have to agree with the last two posts. I dislike just about everything about Lewis as a character off the track, but when he's in the car he's awesome, and in a different class to Jenson.
EC83 Wrote:
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> The interesting thing if Macca sign JB would be
> how Lewis would cope with officially being #2 in
> the team, at least according to how the numbering
> of the cars would have to work.
It didn't affect him in 2007
X (@ed24f1)
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> The interesting thing if Macca sign JB would be
> how Lewis would cope with officially being #2 in
> the team, at least according to how the numbering
> of the cars would have to work.
It didn't affect him in 2007
X (@ed24f1)
Jenson Button = Ralf Schumacher
RedSam
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...except that he's far more likeable, not trying to live off his brother's reputation, doesn't keep crashing into people and has actually achieved something of note in his career.
In fact, Sam, what exactly is the similarity with Ralf?
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In fact, Sam, what exactly is the similarity with Ralf?
Red Sam Wrote:
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> Jenson Button = Ralf Schumacher
I could maybe see a comparison with Hill/DC but Ralf? I know you dont like Button, but thats abit low :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
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> Jenson Button = Ralf Schumacher
I could maybe see a comparison with Hill/DC but Ralf? I know you dont like Button, but thats abit low :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
to expand my comparison (which has nothing to do with personality!)
Ralf was someone who could win and win well when the car was perfect - but when it wasn't he would often struggle against his teammate.
Jenson is the same as far as I can see...
RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
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Ralf was someone who could win and win well when the car was perfect - but when it wasn't he would often struggle against his teammate.
Jenson is the same as far as I can see...
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
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Think people are a bit harsh to bash Ralf as much as they do. He might not have been the best driver of his generation, and he might have been pretty far removed from being the complete package, but he did(mainly between 1998 and 2003) drive some awesome races - they were just relatively few and far between for a top F1 driver. I think that's why people look back on him now as effectively being crap, when actually he was far from it. He certainly proved he was a frontrunning driver in his own right, and not just in F1 because he was Michael's brother.
Ralf was a puzzling driver because on his day, he could beat anybody, but those days were rare(Sam's spot on about Ralf responding well to a well set up car). A lot of the time his head just seemed to be in the wrong place.
And yeah, I do see the similarities to Jenson that Sam is getting at. When the car is a peach, Jenson raises his game to match it and looks peerless. When the car is awkward or uncompetitive, it's as if JB suddenly loses confidence and/or motivation, and suddenly he looks very ordinary, even relative to the performance of that slower car. 2009 illustrated it beautifully.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2009 02:43AM by EC83.
Ralf was a puzzling driver because on his day, he could beat anybody, but those days were rare(Sam's spot on about Ralf responding well to a well set up car). A lot of the time his head just seemed to be in the wrong place.
And yeah, I do see the similarities to Jenson that Sam is getting at. When the car is a peach, Jenson raises his game to match it and looks peerless. When the car is awkward or uncompetitive, it's as if JB suddenly loses confidence and/or motivation, and suddenly he looks very ordinary, even relative to the performance of that slower car. 2009 illustrated it beautifully.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2009 02:43AM by EC83.
The fact is Ralf DID win races, and if I remember rightly, his Jordan days were pretty spicy for a rookie too.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
marcl Wrote:
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> Do people really think MS will come back next year
> and drive for them. Its all over the net that
> this could happen next year.
to be honest, i can't see it.
but then again if 12 months ago you'd told me button would be starting the first race of 2011 in a mclaren as reigning world champion i'd have pointed you in the direction of the men in white coats.
so i guess it goes to show anything can and usually does happen.
so, i don't think he will join merc, but i also wouldn't be suprised if he did
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2009 12:01PM by marwood82.
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> Do people really think MS will come back next year
> and drive for them. Its all over the net that
> this could happen next year.
to be honest, i can't see it.
but then again if 12 months ago you'd told me button would be starting the first race of 2011 in a mclaren as reigning world champion i'd have pointed you in the direction of the men in white coats.
so i guess it goes to show anything can and usually does happen.
so, i don't think he will join merc, but i also wouldn't be suprised if he did
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2009 12:01PM by marwood82.
Jenson could go nowhere else than macca.
Consider that macca made a bad start in 09 but was the ONLY team that managed to improve the car at a winning level and offer Hamilton the ability to score the most points in the 2nd half of the season.
Brawn GP didn't show the same ability of mass improvement and Jenson knows that better than any of us. And probably made him uncertain about the 2010 Brawn GP car (=> Mercedes Benz).
The "potential for improvement" of macca, almost guarantees a top car next year, if not from the beginning, at least after the first races.
So macca was the only option for Jenson if he wanted to be in a position to defend the title.
It's just what Raikkonen said out loud: macca is the only option.
Jenson didn't say that but listened to it...
And this is how it went:
- macca chose Button over Kimi and got a more "stable" driver (in terms of performance) for less money - probably.
- Button left Brawn and accepted to get less money but drive a car able to win championships.
- Kimi would probably take the sabbatical...
- and Brawn didn't manage to get Button signed although he made a reasonable offer because Button was already focused at Macca.
It's getting more clear day after day...
_________________________
some of my GP4 works ...
Consider that macca made a bad start in 09 but was the ONLY team that managed to improve the car at a winning level and offer Hamilton the ability to score the most points in the 2nd half of the season.
Brawn GP didn't show the same ability of mass improvement and Jenson knows that better than any of us. And probably made him uncertain about the 2010 Brawn GP car (=> Mercedes Benz).
The "potential for improvement" of macca, almost guarantees a top car next year, if not from the beginning, at least after the first races.
So macca was the only option for Jenson if he wanted to be in a position to defend the title.
It's just what Raikkonen said out loud: macca is the only option.
Jenson didn't say that but listened to it...
And this is how it went:
- macca chose Button over Kimi and got a more "stable" driver (in terms of performance) for less money - probably.
- Button left Brawn and accepted to get less money but drive a car able to win championships.
- Kimi would probably take the sabbatical...
- and Brawn didn't manage to get Button signed although he made a reasonable offer because Button was already focused at Macca.
It's getting more clear day after day...
_________________________
some of my GP4 works ...
Ralf from 1998-2002 was IMO capable of winning WDC in a Mclaren or Ferrari.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
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