DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Twist your words? I didn't even quote your words.
> How could I twist them otherwise? Don't deflect
> from my point.
You said I said someone who was qualified was wrong.
Point out where I said that like you claimed.
> I posted that hoping for discussion...
>
> Did you hell. You started the discussion because
> of your love of aerodynamics and the idea that you
> actually know enough about it to have an opinion
> over the people who are qualified.
lol. my initial post was out of common sense regarding the idea of only CFD. My second post in reply to you was for open discussion to hear what others had to say about it. I know I do not know enough to have an opinion over someone who is fully qualified, but I know enough to voice an opinion. For you to tell me outright that i am wrong without providing factual evidence rather than opinion I would very much interested to know how well qualified you are regarding this subject.
> Just FYI, Patrick Head stepped down from his
> design position 5 years ago and is now a manager
> of the engineering section, not a designer or
> engineer. His input to the cars has been minimal
> since 2004, when Frank Williams effectively told
> him he was stepping down.
So his years of experience (far more valuable than any degree or "qualification" means nothing? He's still a key figure. Just because he's stepped down does not mean to say he has magically forgot everything he knew.
His quote also does
> nothing to back-up anything you have said, or
> posted. He simply states that CFD is a difficult
> environment to conduct tests in. He didn't mention
> any sort of comparison to wind tunnel testing.
It explains the very basics of the difficulties of using CFD
> The quote from Jon was based well over a year ago
> now, and finally posted on the new Williams site a
> few months later (it was in Autosport/Racecar
> engineering). I'm sure your familiar with Moores
> law, and the systems which Nick Wirth has invested
> in which have brought CFD technology to the stage
> where it is far more useable, so I won't bore you
> with the details of those.
Ofc CFD is far more useable. At any level but the reason I bought in that quote was because the current F1 teams will not be too far behind (if at all) the technology Wirth has. If there were more to had with CFD then you can gaurantee an F1 team will find it and if teams are still reliant on Windtunnels despite all the advances made I think that says alot.
Just to quote myself for clarification...
"easier to develop because of the shear number of changes you can make within a short time period."
I mean to the car. Not to the test conditions.
The opposite applies with the test conditions. In a windtunnel you could change pitch yaw, whatever in minutes and get readable results in seconds. In CFD it takes alot longer to the same.
> The only reason this non-usage of the wind tunnel
> is "news" is because journos love a good story,
> and to a general fan the headline "Wirth won't be
> using wind tunnels" sounds amazing, because it's
> right up there with anything Simon Gillette says
> about the future of Donington Park. The same
> headlines appeared when Stewart announced the
> first CAD only F1 car. "The systems aren't ready",
> etc, etc. Same as this. And of course that car
> turned out to be a complete failure. Wait, that
> ain't right.
Dont compare Stewarts step into the digital world to this.
What they did was use digital drawings so to ease manufacturing rather than having to manually code the machines based on their drawings. CFD is totally different to CAD or CAM.
> It isn't news. It isn't new technique. It has been
> used to design successful racing cars and the area
> has gone under extensive development in the past 2
> years.
My main point about this whole thing still has not been answered and as far as I am aware you disagree.
So...
Do you think its wise to go full steam ahead and design a car only using CFD without the aid of a windtunnel?? My opinion was right now no! My opinion of why Wirth isnt using a tunnel? Money.
In 6-10 years yes the windtunnel will see alot less or even zero activity regarding design and development of an F1 car.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL