back to mid 90's

can anyone tell me what the illegal stuffs for benneton in '94 have been and which of them were proved to be truth and for which did benetton and schumi got punishment

i know about illegal TC, FUEL , UNDERPOD BLANK or something .. if you can give any more information i will be greateful , because i cant really understand one thing :

The ... WILLIAMS , RENAULT, SENNA combination was meant to be the geratest in the sport.. and all of a sudden michael smashed them .I was thinking it was all a great skills by michael but with all those drama about illegal stuffs what is the truth in fact... thank you guys in advance

The Williams was awful without all of the driver aids and stuff, I think it was the handling that was the big issue, especially for the first half of the year. I think Williams only pulled level with Benetton at Suzuka and Adelaide. Also Schumi was driving great, totally outclassing Hill, Senna even made a mistake at Interlagos trying to keep up with him.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

The Benetton was meant to be running TC and LC but was never proven. They found the software in the car, but it was turned off and no one really knows if this was turned off during the race. Someone who left the team later said there were running it all.

Senna said there were 2 different Benettons on track, and this is why the 2nd car was never on the pace.

The fuel rig also had a part removed to make the stops faster, and caused the fire in Germnay.

Senna had 3 pole laps and was so much faster than Hill and for me this showed just how good Senna was and how poor Hill was. Brazil Senna spun trying to keep up, but would MS have passed him in the pits had the stop been legal? Who knows. But if you watch the race you can see just how hard senna was having to drive, other drivers had comments about just how bad the Williams looked over the bumps and how smooth the Benetton was.

The 2nd race Senna got punted off, but watched the cars from the side of the track and thats when he thought not all was correct with the Benetton.

Imola well dont need to go there.

Ferrari2007 Wrote:
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> The Williams was awful without all of the driver
> aids and stuff, I think it was the handling that
> was the big issue, especially for the first half
> of the year. I think Williams only pulled level
> with Benetton at Suzuka and Adelaide. Also Schumi
> was driving great, totally outclassing Hill, Senna
> even made a mistake at Interlagos trying to keep
> up with him.


thats pretty much as i remember it. The Fw14 and 15 were good cars aerodynamically and the renault engine was very strong, but one of their real advantages was an active suspension system that was lightyears ahead of the others. (this was then added to via ABS and traction control)

however, to make maximum use of it, their entire car had been designed around it over a number of years, thus taking it away showed problems with the design that it had effectivly hidden.

at the start of the year, it was quite unstable, particuarly at the rear making it quite a hard car to control especially over bumps.

if i recall, Sennas spin in brazil was put down partly to a mistake and partly due to the cars rear end stability over the bumps.

over a single lap the Senna/williams combo was still the quickest though. don't forget Senna took 3 poles out of 3 and Hill didn't start lower than 4th at the start of 1994.

so the apparent closeness, was partly down to the williams not being the car it was in 92+93 and the light and nimble benetton being a fairly solid alround package(ok they may have been cheating) but lets not forget, schumacher was quite useful too



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2009 10:51AM by marwood82.

For a good demonstration of what Senna was suspicious about, watch this video of Schumi's start at Magny Cours:



&feature=related

It could be just a great start, or a double Williams crap start, but it's only one example.

Rather more amusing is the ad in Autosport a few years ago that offered a B194 complete with TC and LC. That said, someone (i think Dave) pointed out that it still fits in with Benetton's claims that it was disabled.

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I've never had any doubts that Benetton were cheating the arses off all through '94.

The past couple of weeks have only cemented my belief.

Oh, and saying Hill was poor is a remarkable statement.

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

The Benetton was proven to have Launch Control and Traction Control software. Specificly at the French GP. But Charlie Whiting said they couldn't be banned because they had no proof that they actually ran the system, only that it was installed.

At Hockenheim Benetton removed the fuel filters from the fuel rig. It allowed the fuel to flow significantly faster through the rig, giving an advantage. The disadvantage was of course that it set fire to Jos Verstappen. They may have been running previous events without the filters too. Nobody knows except those involved.

At Spa Schumachers car was too low. The plank was worn down too much and they were DQ'd. Benetton appealed, claiming that Schumacher spinning over a kerb was the cause of the wear. The FIA stated the wear was in a different place on the car than what went over the kerb. The DQ stood.

At Silverstone, Schumacher bizzarely overtook Hill twice on the formation lap. Hill repassed both times. Schumacher was given a 5 second stop and go, but was ordered to stay out by the Benetton team. Flavio and Tom Walkinshaw (2 of the most corrupt men in the history of motorsport) were see arguing with officials in the pit lane. For ignoring the stop and go call, Schumacher was shown the black flag and ordered to park the car. He pitted and took the 5 second penalty. Benetton claimed the penalty had now been taken, but it was too late. He had been disqualified. Schumacher raced till the end but was given a 2 race ban and disqualified from the race.

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DaveEllis Wrote:
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> The disadvantage was of course that it set fire to Jos Verstappen.

Excellent. :D

+ 1 that's some brilliant delivery Dave, I'm giggling away to myself at work here.

It's pretty much a given that Benetton cheated like it was about to be outlawed throughout 1994 (oh wait, what...?) You'll find whole threads devoted to it around here and elsewhere. I think the whole French GP TC/LC incident sums up the whole affair. TC/LC installed but no proof of it being used. I mean come on?

I'd just love to know what, if any, hi-jinks they got up to in 1995.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2009 02:47PM by The Lopper.

you forget something my friends....
1995, 1994 benetton were fast and then waht do you think ??....
all of a sudden a lot slower the next year and afterwards.. come ooon, it's clear that schumacher was the main reason for them to be up ahead . it is not possible for them to have cheated in 94 and '95 and all of a sudden stop cheating in '96. this says a lot

Who followed Schumacher though, Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Nigel Stepney...a few others.... Basically, Schumacher had his own F1 team. So while Schumacher was obviously a big loss, team-wise the bigger loss was probably the people who went with him.

all of a sudden a lot slower the next year and afterwards.

Actually not really no. Damon and DC were cost numerous races by random car failures in 1995, and cost even more time in the pit stops. Coulthard alone would have won Argentina, Spa, Monza and Australia had the Williams not fallen apart. Stop and go penalty at Silverstone cost him a would be win there too. And Damon was cost Montreal and Brazil by the gearbox.

Schumacher may have been significantly better than his team mates, but that doesn't mean he was the major difference there. Herbert was his best team mate in 94/95 and as much as like Johnny he was hardly epic.

Benetton may have slipped back slightly during 1996, but the reason for less wins simply was tougher competition. Schumacher moved to Ferrari, making them a better contender. Williams stopped the car breaking down constantly, and improved during the pit stops. Benetton were cost a win at Hockenheim in the closing laps of the 1996 race if you remember rightly too.

You can't sit and say that Benetton didn't cheat. They did. It's a fact. They cheated for fact at Hockenheim, fact at Spa, and they had illegal software installed on the car. This says far more than any performance gap you can come up with.

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If you look at 1994 as well, when MS was banned the Benetton was no where at all. The drivers in the car were not that bad so what happened there?

MS in 1992 and 1993 went of the road so much with no TC, all of a sudden in 1994 the errors stopped he was like a different driver and again something I always found strange.

As I said before Senna was so angry about it, he kept saying there were 2 different Benettons on the track.

Verstappen on the B194:

Q: Looking back how do you see the 1994 season with Benetton. Was it a mistake?

JV: "I think that maybe I was in the right place - but at the wrong time. Benetton is a very good team. They have proved that. But for me it was just a very difficult year, particularly as I was alongside Schumacher. I didn't have any problems with that in my head but the car was too nervous for me. I cannot handle that style of car."

Q: Was it the same problem which Johnny Herbert complained about last year?

JV: "Absolutely. I must have a little the same driving style as Johnny because he said basically the same things about that car that I did and seems to have had the same feelings. It was a very difficult car. You could not feel the limit and so you were pushing and pushing and then suddenly it would have oversteer. Normally when you get oversteer you can control it but the Benetton would go very suddenly and so you ended up having a spin. I had big problems with that car. Then I went on to Simtek. I must say that it didn't go that well in qualifying because we always had a gearbox problem but in the races we showed that we could do quite well. Now at Arrows I feel that the car suits the way I drive. I am happy in the car and I can go right to the limit. I think that I have now proved to the people in F1 that I am quick, despite what they thought in 1994

[www.grandprix.com]


When they're on about Herbert, here's what he said about 1995

The relationship with Briatore was almost non-existent, and insiders suggested that Flav was less than wholly pleased when Herbert's second place in Spain saved his bacon, and even less so when victory at Silverstone fulfilled a performance clause in his contract which prevented him being replaced.

'The whole problem in 1995 wasn't just Flavio, to be fair,' said Johnny. 'It was the car. The B195 was just horrible. Ask Gerhard Berger!'

Berger hated everything about the B195 on the occasions upon which he tested it before the B196 was ready. 'I just couldn't drive the B195,' he admitted. 'I hated everything about it, it was just so tricky.' Because it was Gerhard saying it this time, people took notice.

'The only meaningful test that I had with Benetton was at Silverstone just before the British GP,' Herbert mused. 'And that was on the South Circuit! That wasn't really a lot of use. Michael tested on the GP circuit, and I had to do my running on the small track…'

[www.johnnyherbert.co.uk]


Benetton were pretty much a 1-car team. Same deal as Briatore had presumably being doing with Alonso. Fair enough, you might say, but you do begin to understand how Benetton spiked in 1994-1995 when the main challengers, Williams, couldn't really give a toss about either of their drivers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2009 02:53PM by The Lopper.