The Official German Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***
Posted by Frantic
thinking about it more now, i dont understand how Rubens can blame the team for losing this race. The reason he was leading at the start was because of low fuel, the reason for low fuel was 3 stop strategy and the reason for that was that the tyres were wearing out very quickly. Even on 3 stops they had problems. So, what did he have in mind a 2 stop? that would make it worse for him due to tyre wear. Also the botched pit stop hardly lost him the race.
Quite a strange race imo.
Awesome drives by Massa and Nico and Alonso, Massa starting to impress me a great deal again.
Brawn were nowhere. They must win Hungary with a 1-2 no matter what!
The rate at which RBR has caught them in the points is amazing, not only that but I think we can safley say the RBR is the quickest car now, id say by a decent amount aswell!
Very disapointed at Rubens, funny how the first thing that came to my mind was Bruno
. Ive never witnessed such words from Rubens before, but they are similar to what Bruno says Barachello has often said to Brazillian press. I hope he apologizes publically and privatly to the team. It must be devasting to hear such things. A big no no in my book, the guy whether or not he was in the heat of the moment has lost alot of respect from myself and I imagine others. Theres speaking your mind then theres just plain stupidity and ignorance.
Penalty on Webber was harsh and uncalled for.
Not seen anything about Sutil and Kimi but racing incident imo, just happened to be Kimi again. A great shame because Sutil was my man of the race till that point!!
As for Brawn they were lucky, very lucky! Had Lewis not got a puncture he would have been ahead, no doubt, and imho so would Sutil and maybe Kimi!
Vettel was poor, but 2nd, so its okay, but that race will send big messages to Vettel, Mark isnt someone who will settle for 2nd best. Vettel will have a mountain to climb to beat Webber. I cant hlep but feel Vettel is a poor race driver, I dont think he is the complete package alot of us think he is atm. Almost like a Ralf, stunning speed when at the front but otherwise rather ordinary. JB's race was quite good imo, I thought he was out at the start when the cars just gobbled him up with his conservative approach but he made nice moves to pass Vettel and then a good move on Massa.
But yeah Brawn need to win Hungary and Valencia to get back on track, were the updates planned for here introduced?
Oh, and again Legard was a total pr*ck. Get him out out out!!!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Awesome drives by Massa and Nico and Alonso, Massa starting to impress me a great deal again.
Brawn were nowhere. They must win Hungary with a 1-2 no matter what!
The rate at which RBR has caught them in the points is amazing, not only that but I think we can safley say the RBR is the quickest car now, id say by a decent amount aswell!
Very disapointed at Rubens, funny how the first thing that came to my mind was Bruno
. Ive never witnessed such words from Rubens before, but they are similar to what Bruno says Barachello has often said to Brazillian press. I hope he apologizes publically and privatly to the team. It must be devasting to hear such things. A big no no in my book, the guy whether or not he was in the heat of the moment has lost alot of respect from myself and I imagine others. Theres speaking your mind then theres just plain stupidity and ignorance.Penalty on Webber was harsh and uncalled for.
Not seen anything about Sutil and Kimi but racing incident imo, just happened to be Kimi again. A great shame because Sutil was my man of the race till that point!!
As for Brawn they were lucky, very lucky! Had Lewis not got a puncture he would have been ahead, no doubt, and imho so would Sutil and maybe Kimi!
Vettel was poor, but 2nd, so its okay, but that race will send big messages to Vettel, Mark isnt someone who will settle for 2nd best. Vettel will have a mountain to climb to beat Webber. I cant hlep but feel Vettel is a poor race driver, I dont think he is the complete package alot of us think he is atm. Almost like a Ralf, stunning speed when at the front but otherwise rather ordinary. JB's race was quite good imo, I thought he was out at the start when the cars just gobbled him up with his conservative approach but he made nice moves to pass Vettel and then a good move on Massa.
But yeah Brawn need to win Hungary and Valencia to get back on track, were the updates planned for here introduced?
Oh, and again Legard was a total pr*ck. Get him out out out!!!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
To expand on my earlier comment about the Kimi/Adrian move, IMHO Kimi 'squeezed' Adrian far too much on the pitlane exit. He really left him with no option other than to brake almost to a standstill, or collide.
Arguably, yes Sutil could have braked to a standstill. But IMHO that's Raikkonen "causing" the incident and Sutil merely "failing to prevent" the incident. I don't think Adrian should have been put in that 'back off or hit me' situation to begin with. He was on cold tyres coming out of the pits off the racing line, he really didn't have sufficient chance to slow his car down normally.
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Arguably, yes Sutil could have braked to a standstill. But IMHO that's Raikkonen "causing" the incident and Sutil merely "failing to prevent" the incident. I don't think Adrian should have been put in that 'back off or hit me' situation to begin with. He was on cold tyres coming out of the pits off the racing line, he really didn't have sufficient chance to slow his car down normally.
Yeah.... the point immediately before the 2 collided.
He definitely needed to leave Sutil more room.
He definitely needed to leave Sutil more room.
People moaned because Rubens didn't speak up at Ferrari - now he does, and he is branded a moaner. What can he do?
RedSam
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Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
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Red Sam Wrote:
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> People moaned because Rubens didn't speak up at
> Ferrari - now he does, and he is branded a moaner.
> What can he do?
I like, but he should have just said that he is not happy that the team favored button instead of going on about them losing him the race. The race was lost when they designed their car so that it only works in hot conditions
Guimengo Wrote:
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> Gin:
>
> Brawn held him 1 extra second in the pits, he came
> out behind Massa. Then the hose issue. Then they
> change Button's strategy so he takes Rubinho's
> position and takes an extra point against Vettel
> and Webber. Quit the drinking before posting.
aaaww poor thing, bitter much?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2009 11:09PM by gin.
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> People moaned because Rubens didn't speak up at
> Ferrari - now he does, and he is branded a moaner.
> What can he do?
I like, but he should have just said that he is not happy that the team favored button instead of going on about them losing him the race. The race was lost when they designed their car so that it only works in hot conditions
Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gin:
>
> Brawn held him 1 extra second in the pits, he came
> out behind Massa. Then the hose issue. Then they
> change Button's strategy so he takes Rubinho's
> position and takes an extra point against Vettel
> and Webber. Quit the drinking before posting.
aaaww poor thing, bitter much?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2009 11:09PM by gin.
Red Sam Wrote:
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> People moaned because Rubens didn't speak up at
> Ferrari - now he does, and he is branded a moaner.
> What can he do?
Wait, you cant be serious comparing the two situations!
At Ferrari there was clear deliberate intervention from the team to help Michael win.
What has happened here is just unacceptable. He has nothing to moan about, they took him on when his career was dead in the water, they have given him a race winning car and yet today because of one bad race he moans at them?!!
He should have no issue with losing to Jenson as Jenson was the quicker guy simple isnt it?! How can he moan at his team for a completley random problem, its racing, it happens!
edit - again the theory of the team favouring Jenson is complete bullsh*t. Leading upto the pitstop he was quicker.
edit again. Gui, Jensons strategy was changed because he allowed it to. Quite simply he did the clever thing as saved fuel, allowing him one extra lap to jump rubens. Dont for one second think that the team would compramise a driver, especially when they see the championships within grasp but yet so far. RBR have scored more points in the last 3 races, alot more and Brawn would not compramise the total points for WDC over the drivers.
edit, again(!!!) - Rubens demonstrated pure paranoia (sp?) today, if he wants a WDC he needs to be alot more head-strong.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2009 12:47AM by chet.
-------------------------------------------------------
> People moaned because Rubens didn't speak up at
> Ferrari - now he does, and he is branded a moaner.
> What can he do?
Wait, you cant be serious comparing the two situations!
At Ferrari there was clear deliberate intervention from the team to help Michael win.
What has happened here is just unacceptable. He has nothing to moan about, they took him on when his career was dead in the water, they have given him a race winning car and yet today because of one bad race he moans at them?!!
He should have no issue with losing to Jenson as Jenson was the quicker guy simple isnt it?! How can he moan at his team for a completley random problem, its racing, it happens!
edit - again the theory of the team favouring Jenson is complete bullsh*t. Leading upto the pitstop he was quicker.
edit again. Gui, Jensons strategy was changed because he allowed it to. Quite simply he did the clever thing as saved fuel, allowing him one extra lap to jump rubens. Dont for one second think that the team would compramise a driver, especially when they see the championships within grasp but yet so far. RBR have scored more points in the last 3 races, alot more and Brawn would not compramise the total points for WDC over the drivers.
edit, again(!!!) - Rubens demonstrated pure paranoia (sp?) today, if he wants a WDC he needs to be alot more head-strong.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2009 12:47AM by chet.
Good race, fantastic win for Mark!! Great to see him finally get one! Truly deserved it as well, his pace during the race was just mindblowing.
Another awesome weekend for RedBull, they have a great chance now in the Constructors' championship at least.
Brilliant drive from Sutil, really deserved a points finish at the very least off the back of it. And it had to be Kimi who collided with him!!
Disappointing again for Brawn, and a total mare of a race for Rubens. And, as discussed above, his comments afterwards! Great to see a driver doing away with PC and speaking his mind for once, but holy crap, will those words have repercussions!
All in all the race seemed to be as good as could be expected, considering it stayed dry.
Another awesome weekend for RedBull, they have a great chance now in the Constructors' championship at least.
Brilliant drive from Sutil, really deserved a points finish at the very least off the back of it. And it had to be Kimi who collided with him!!
Disappointing again for Brawn, and a total mare of a race for Rubens. And, as discussed above, his comments afterwards! Great to see a driver doing away with PC and speaking his mind for once, but holy crap, will those words have repercussions!
All in all the race seemed to be as good as could be expected, considering it stayed dry.
gav Wrote:
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> Yeah.... the point immediately before the 2
> collided.
>
> [www.thisisgav.co.uk]
>
> He definitely needed to leave Sutil more room.
Oh!, So you think kimi just gonna let him self go straight away through the dirty side of the track?, he is on very outside of the track, and look how sutil let him self run-wide(thinking their's no other driver-out their) and by not checking his mirrors, wheather he is on cold tires...it doesnt matter because he didn't adjust his racing line. he just stayed their for instances. Until he left kimi no room then kimi squeezing himself on inside of the track to prevent those dirty-side, and sutil didn't just move. or maybe sutil just didn't anticipated what just kimi expected him to do so. the fact that im 100% sure ,he didn't see kimi on his mirrors before turn 1 and probably..he was suprised by it. at the end of it
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2009 06:31AM by micky-cannonball.
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> Yeah.... the point immediately before the 2
> collided.
>
> [www.thisisgav.co.uk]
>
> He definitely needed to leave Sutil more room.
Oh!, So you think kimi just gonna let him self go straight away through the dirty side of the track?, he is on very outside of the track, and look how sutil let him self run-wide(thinking their's no other driver-out their) and by not checking his mirrors, wheather he is on cold tires...it doesnt matter because he didn't adjust his racing line. he just stayed their for instances. Until he left kimi no room then kimi squeezing himself on inside of the track to prevent those dirty-side, and sutil didn't just move. or maybe sutil just didn't anticipated what just kimi expected him to do so. the fact that im 100% sure ,he didn't see kimi on his mirrors before turn 1 and probably..he was suprised by it. at the end of it
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2009 06:31AM by micky-cannonball.
micky-cannonball Wrote:
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Random words
//edit: Chet, remarkably, I almost entirely disagree with most of what you have written.
Button was faster at points in the race, Rubens in others.
Rubens held a substantial lead over Button, yet once more (not the first time, as you are making out), strategy has played into the hands of his teammate. Ross Brawn might have a reputation as a master tactician, but his words are only finding their way to one side of the garage at the moment.
You give your leading car the optimum strategy. Except at teams with clear number ones, that's the way it works. Yet consistently, Rubens has been given the shorter fuel load, having to be pitted first. Earlier in the season, that might have been his decision, but it's fairly obvious from the past few races that it's not the case. He might be a bit of a moaner, but it wasn't moaning he was doing, it was anger.
If it's his last season in F1, do you expect him to go with a whimper? If there's even the slightest chance of a championship challenge, he'll go for it, and I think he's now prepared to put his job on the line with his words rather than just accept being number 2.
It's a team sport... but not when the team is fighting against you, as it seems is the case now.
If Brawn just accepted that they were favouring or even concentrating on Button, then I think people would find that easier to understand, but they're trying to skip around it as if no-one will notice. It's quite slimy the way they're going about it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2009 08:45AM by gav.
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Random words
//edit: Chet, remarkably, I almost entirely disagree with most of what you have written.
Button was faster at points in the race, Rubens in others.
Rubens held a substantial lead over Button, yet once more (not the first time, as you are making out), strategy has played into the hands of his teammate. Ross Brawn might have a reputation as a master tactician, but his words are only finding their way to one side of the garage at the moment.
You give your leading car the optimum strategy. Except at teams with clear number ones, that's the way it works. Yet consistently, Rubens has been given the shorter fuel load, having to be pitted first. Earlier in the season, that might have been his decision, but it's fairly obvious from the past few races that it's not the case. He might be a bit of a moaner, but it wasn't moaning he was doing, it was anger.
If it's his last season in F1, do you expect him to go with a whimper? If there's even the slightest chance of a championship challenge, he'll go for it, and I think he's now prepared to put his job on the line with his words rather than just accept being number 2.
It's a team sport... but not when the team is fighting against you, as it seems is the case now.
If Brawn just accepted that they were favouring or even concentrating on Button, then I think people would find that easier to understand, but they're trying to skip around it as if no-one will notice. It's quite slimy the way they're going about it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2009 08:45AM by gav.
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