The Official Spanish Grand Prix 2009 Thread (*spoilers*)

I really think too much is being read into Rubens comments -

"If I get the slightest sniff of the fact that they have favoured Jenson, I will hang up my helmet tomorrow," he told United States channel SpeedTV.

"But I know Ross wouldn't do that. He asked me to drive for him and he knows I want to race fairly with Jenson."

He would have been asked that question, so answered it. He went on to say Ross wouldn't do that. So I think a bit much is being made of it.

As for the race - it was all about strategy again. Sometimes not even your own. Jensons teams decision to switch him to a 2 stopper was perfect. Rubens couldn't answer it. Had his team made the same decision, I think he would have beaten Jenson. But ifs and buts, right?

Same applied for the Red Bulls. Vettel got stuck behind Massa and would never have been able to pass. Whenever they pitted Vettel to get him clean air, Massa was pitted too. Ironicly Webbers botched first stop was what got him 3rd. It dropped him 7 seconds behind Massa and gave him clean air. When Massa and Vettel were on the 3rd stint, Massa was so slow that Webber only needed 4 laps at regular speed to get the place. What was a bad mistake at the time turned out to be a brilliant piece of luck for Webber.

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All the more reason to keep fuel and tyre stops intact and not turn races into even more processional disappointments than they're already infamous for.

marcl Wrote:
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> Legard are Eddie need to go more like as does this
> track.


I agree. Watched the race on 301 on Sunday as opposed to BBC1, the only thing I missed was Brundle. Other than that, the commentary was 10 times better. Legard is more suited to radio. On TV, where people can see what he is attempting to describe, its more difficult for him. For all of Allen's ills, he had a spark and enthusiasm for F1.

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geez hamilton is a spoilt brat. his team at the factory has been working so damn hard, for him basically, and he has nothing positive to say after the race, all he did was blame the car to make sure he still looks great, like he did nothing wrong. well lewis, maybe now y9ou will know you arent ayrton senna 2, you cant make a bad car win. i wonder when his dumb looking girlfriend will leave him, as he wont be winning for a long time, surely she needs a winner, a girl like that.

kubica2 Wrote:
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> geez hamilton is a spoilt brat. his team at the
> factory has been working so damn hard, for him
> basically, and he has nothing positive to say
> after the race, all he did was blame the car to
> make sure he still looks great, like he did
> nothing wrong. well lewis, maybe now y9ou will
> know you arent ayrton senna 2, you cant make a bad
> car win. i wonder when his dumb looking girlfriend
> will leave him, as he wont be winning for a long
> time, surely she needs a winner, a girl like that.


He reiterated that the team had been working hard. They knew the track wouldn't suit them, and that's because of the car's failings. When things are so close, a bad car can really put you back, and I don't think anyone is disputing that at the moment, that's what the McLaren is.

Chet wrote:

> He did have a championship winning car for quite a
> few seasons. The reason he did not win is simple,
> Shumacher. Ferrari gave him equal status to a
> point. Once that point had been reached it was
> clear that MS had priorty, and perhaps that point
> came too early in the season.

I don't think Ferrari ever gave Rubens equal status, not even the first race of the 2000 campaign. Schumacher was an undeniable no 1.
The other factor was Shumi's relationship with the team. I think He made everyone feel a duty to work a bit harder for him. I'm not saying the team don't always work hard, but a bit of extra checking, a few thoughts each night after work, a little extra care fitting the car together, wanting to impress him, do him proud. Also I'm sure Ferrari compared all the parts the got in and gave the better bits to Shumi. All backed up somewhat by the incredible reliability of his car, even compared to the other ferrari. I forget the details but didn't Shumi survive without engine failure for 2 years or something, Barrichello's engines were going off way more frequently, I remember his wheel flying off in hungary one year because of a loose wheel nut. Shumi's wheel was never loose, also when he ran out of fuel in Brazil as the radio was broke, Shumis radio never broke etc etc...

Gav Wrote:

>After all the crap he had to put up with at
>Ferrari, he deserves a title more than anyone else
>in the field.

+1

I want him to win more than Button, he definitely deserves it more, plus this is almost certainly his last season and last chance, it would be very pleasing if at the end of his career, he could finally win a world title.

___________
Justin

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don’t think he has come to apologize."

Ayrton Senna (1960 - 1994)

chet Wrote:
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[stuff]

A different, but no less valid opinion.

I just happen to feel that Rubens wasn't given a fair crack of the whip at Ferrari. When he joined he was somewhat famously given "1b" status, in his own words, and people were already laughing at that before the season started.

In Schumacher's career, no driver has been equal or close to him after the first couple of seasons. Did he suddenly start going a second faster than previously? Was Brundle really that much better than the likes of Irvine and Barrichello? 1996, the only direct evidence we have, indicates otherwise.

Don't get me wrong - I could argue for Schumacher for decades - the guy was sensational (though I didn't particularly like him), I just happen to feel Barrichello was beaten up before he beat himself up... as were the rest of the teammates after Brundle and Patrese.

"Deserve" wasn't the right word to use, but I can't think of a better one. It's like when Rubens won his first race... other than McLaren that day, pretty much the whole sport wanted him to do it. Schumacher, almost apologetically kept offering wins once the main objective was over with... he knew.

I don't think Barrichello was screwed over... he was just the Ferrari version of Coulthard at McLaren - never really in with a chance as he didn't have 100% support in the team.

kubica2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i wonder when his dumb looking girlfriend
> will leave him, as he wont be winning for a long
> time, surely she needs a winner, a girl like that.

LoL! There is a lot you don't know about women then!

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

> kubica2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> surely she needs a winner, a girl like
> that.

lol what a bizarre statement!

I.Tz No Problem
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i might be wrong but in reference to the webber and alonso battle i'd like to point out that renault apparently didn't use kers in spain...

[www.autoevolution.com]

I was also under the impression that Renault indeed did not use KERS.

_____________________________________________________________________________

I think Rubens just wants reassurance that he's definitely being fairly treated. He remembers only too well the situation he endured at Ferrari for 6 seasons. Once he wins a race(and hopefully he will win one soon) he should settle down a bit. As we all know, it's all about confidence with Rubens.


Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kubica2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i wonder when his dumb looking girlfriend
> > will leave him, as he wont be winning for a
> long
> > time, surely she needs a winner, a girl like
> that.
>
> LoL! There is a lot you don't know about women
> then!

I think it depends on the woman, LOL
I certainly don't see Lewis and Nicole lasting, though I don't think his winning/lack of will have any bearing on it.

---

rapid_f1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Legard are Eddie need to go more like as does
> this
> > track.
>
>
> I agree. Watched the race on 301 on Sunday as
> opposed to BBC1, the only thing I missed was
> Brundle. Other than that, the commentary was 10
> times better. Legard is more suited to radio. On
> TV, where people can see what he is attempting to
> describe, its more difficult for him. For all of
> Allen's ills, he had a spark and enthusiasm for
> F1.

You should count yourselves lucky. At least Legard doesn't mention 12 times during the race that Massa is going to be a father by november and that it's going to be a boy. As everyone knows, it's possible to know the gender with 2 months in

I think people are reading too much into the Rubens thing, and i didn't saw him as sad as he was in Austria 2002, he was downbeat, of course, he just lost a race, but not as mad or sad...

personally this season reflects what Rubens went trhough at Ferrari, only with a few details changed, Rubens was never in a position to challengue Michael for a World Championship, i mean he was never as good as Michael in terms of the guy winning everything, Michael did pretty much what Jenson is doing now, Winning everything when the chance is given, some drivers fail to do that, Sure Rubens could've beat Michael at a race or 2 but sometimes he just couldn't keep it up with Michael for the whole season, and this season he's proving it, he made mistakes and this is just the 2nd 1-2 finish for Brawn
When Michael got beaten by Rubens he usually finished right behind

i'm not saying Rubens is a bad driver or anything, but he just wasn't as effective as Michael, so for Ferrari, as mentioned before by chet, it was quite easy to decide who'll be the one fighting for the World Championship early in the season, and to be honest if i was in Brawn position's i would do the same, who knows when they'll have another chance of fighting for the championship?, and so far Jenson's proven he's the better driver and most effective

is just an opinion, but Jenson has proven that if he has the car he beats them all, and won't make mistakes or anything like that, something Rubens hasn't prove from the Ferrari days and this season as well, how many times Rubens finished 2nd to Michael in the championship anyways during the 5 seasonns Michael won the championship?

having said that, i do not think team oreders have been given yet, but i wouldn't be surprised if we see them in the course of the season

Joe_Satriani Wrote:

> You should count yourselves lucky. At least Legard
> doesn't mention 12 times during the race that
> Massa is going to be a father by november and that
> it's going to be a boy. As everyone knows, it's
> possible to know the gender with 2 months in


Enzo Ferrari used to say a child would make a driver 1 sec slower, something that didn't seemed to work with Schumacher, but it did with Zanardi, Montoya, Ralf, Mika among others, i hope Felipe can keep it up, lol :p



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2009 06:46AM by Slash.

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ironicly Webbers
> botched first stop was what got him 3rd. It
> dropped him 7 seconds behind Massa and gave him
> clean air. When Massa and Vettel were on the 3rd
> stint, Massa was so slow that Webber only needed 4
> laps at regular speed to get the place. What was a
> bad mistake at the time turned out to be a
> brilliant piece of luck for Webber.
--------------------------------------------------------

Is there any indication that Webber's first stop was actaully botched?

Given the extra fuel he would've taken on board for his second stint surely that would've accounted for his out lap being slower?

Not 5 seconds slower, though it wasn't the botched stop, but the extra fuel he was carrying that made the difference.

What makes me laugh is Kubica moans more than anyone about his team and car, yet people keep going on about Lewis having a moan.

Most top drivers I have seen moan from time to time, yet people only seem to complain when Lewis does it

Sorry but Lewis has every right to moan, he is driving a Mclaren and they should not have built the pile of @#$%& that they have. Its probably one of the worst cars they have built since 1995.

All he can do is do what he is doing, drive the wheels off it yet this is still not good enough for people. Can the guy do anything right? If he wins its cause its the best car, if he dont win its due to him being @#$%&. Last year people praised Alonso for driving flat out and trashing Piquet. Well from what I have seen Lewis is driving flat at and either Kovy is that bad or Lewis is doing a great job.

But whatever, I dont expect anyone to agree



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2009 12:17PM by marcl.

Or you only see people moaning about Hamilton moaning. People mention Rubens moans for more often than Hamilton.

Is Hamilton automatically entitled to a good car? Just because he's the champion? You could quite easily argue that if any of the current drivers need a season or 2 in the midfield to keep their feet on the ground (or closer to it...), then it's him.

No am not saying that at all Gav, I think its good he is not in a good car as thats when drivers can show what they can do. But as I said he does have every reason to moan, he is meant to be in one of the top 2 teams they should not be in 14th place.

I was just mentioning about the Lewis thing in this case

Rubens is moaning as well yes, and I have said about that as have others.