End of Mclaren?

i thought mclaren were on probation for the spying they did? or was that only for last year, so this year they thought its ok to cheat again.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Whitmarsh should be sh*tting himself right now. He
> lied live on the BBC Coverage directly after the
> race, and continued to lie, even contradicting
> McLaren and Hamiltons press release/conference
> with his own one. Anyone who actually thinks it
> started with Dave Ryan and stopped at Lewis really
> is daft.

any chance dave you could just quickly explain how he whitmarsh lied as i think i've missed something

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I dunno...I'm starting to think they pissed off the wrong people on the FIA with this one.

Right after the race Whitmarsh was interviewed as he was getting off the pit wall. He said they would protest Trulli as Trulli passed Hamilton illegally. At the time of the interview we didn't know the it was a lie, but looking back it was flat out BS. Whitmarsh has been involved with the crap from the start. And if he plays the "I didn't know Lewis was told to move over" card, then he needs removed from his position. He either knew he was lying, or was too unattached from the race to actually know wtf his own drivers were doing

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What if it had been Ferrari? I think, going on past years, Ferrari would have got a slapped wrist and a small fine. In 2007, in Australia, both Ferraris raced with flexible floor boards (against regulations). Raikkonen won the race, and Ferrari kept the points. The FIA told the Ferrari not use the flexible floor again. Ferrari broke the regulations but were not excluded from the race. Based on other events where Ferrari bent the regs, the FIA let them slide. McLaren should be given the same consideration. The whole McLaren thing has been blown out of proportion. Granted Ryan and Lewis misled the stewards on the day and was excluded from the results, but to try and drag it out further and impose harsher punishment is wrong in my opinion. This probably wouldn't have accorded with Ferrari.

As far as I remember the Ferrari wasn't against the rules, but in a similar situation to the double diffusers of 2009. They went against the spirit of the regulations, but technically weren't against them.

Which is why most expect Brawn, Toyota and Williams to keep any points from Melbourne and Sepang, but have clarity on what is or isn't allowed.

The 1999 Ferrari case at Sepang was a bit different. I think most accept that the FIA allowed the Ferrari to pass in order to have a dramatic end to the title. Remember in that case the car was deemed to be illegal at the track, but the FIA themselves cleared it afterwards.

For the sake of balance the Renault of 2004, 2005 or 2006, again at Sepang (what is it with this circuit?!), had a clearly illegal flexible engine cover, but again went unpunished and it disappeared before the following race.

//edit: and of course McLaren themselves in 1998 with their twin braking system. Very quickly shot down, but not punished as it wasn't against the regulations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2009 07:19PM by gav.

Whitmarsh should jump before the inevitable push comes IMO. He has already implied he could. Looks like the longest-running Macca team boss could be superceded by the shortest-running one :P


gav Wrote:
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> For the sake of balance the Renault of 2004, 2005
> or 2006, again at Sepang (what is it with this
> circuit?!), had a clearly illegal flexible engine
> cover, but again went unpunished and it
> disappeared before the following race.

In 2006, also at Sepang, Ferrari had wings(particularly the front wing) which flexed like hell at terminal velocity on the Penang and S/F straights. They were made to modify them before Melbourne, and allowed to keep their Sepang results, so not a dissimilar turn of events.

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i think many teams do somthing illegal at some point in a season but mclaren always acts a bit unintelligent

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

Yeah,I agree it is impossible any of these team,to does not try to make an advantage over the other. and mclaren just act abit obivious and bit reckless. just like what happen on ron's baby sitter aka lewis.

2 Hot 2 Handle.

MS-


KR -



"You must always pick the worst car and the worst team on the grid, to be the best."
—Fangio

seanmikeuk schreef:
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> What if it had been Ferrari? I think, going on
> past years, Ferrari would have got a slapped wrist
> and a small fine. In 2007, in Australia, both
> Ferraris raced with flexible floor boards (against
> regulations). Raikkonen won the race, and Ferrari
> kept the points. The FIA told the Ferrari not use
> the flexible floor again. Ferrari broke the
> regulations but were not excluded from the race.
> Based on other events where Ferrari bent the regs,
> the FIA let them slide. McLaren should be given
> the same consideration. The whole McLaren thing
> has been blown out of proportion. Granted Ryan
> and Lewis misled the stewards on the day and was
> excluded from the results, but to try and drag it
> out further and impose harsher punishment is wrong
> in my opinion. This probably wouldn't have
> accorded with Ferrari.

Before Malaysia, they where asked again about australie and they kept with the stoory they told the stewarts at australia, so they lied again knowingly they were wrong

Jackie Stewart raised an interesting point; McLaren were trying to get through to Charlie Whiting in Melbourne, but couldn't reach him, because he was busy trying to get Vettel off the circuit, who was circulating on three wheels. Apparently there were four stewards at the circuit, and Stewart is wondering why one of these other stewards can't deal with another situation if Charlie is engaged, a provision which would have presumably avoided all the bother we're in now.

Not wanting to start a new thread, but why are Mclaren attending diffuser appeal without actually contributing??

Also, if the diffusers are declared legal ( well accepted because they are legal!!! ) how will this effect Mclaren...

It seems their problem is aero related, they say lack of rear downforce, but the paint (also paint at Aus) says there was some correlation errors between tunnel/CFD and track. I expect before starting the design process of such an important aerodynamic device they would have solved whatever the problem was before. I think it was clear to all to see that in testing they were supprised at their lack of pace, and of course when your windtunnel/sims saying you should 'X kg' of downforce at this speed, and they werent getting that, then it is very difficult to know where the problem lies.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems their problem is aero related, they say
> lack of rear downforce, but the paint (also paint
> at Aus) says there was some correlation errors
> between tunnel/CFD and track. I expect before
> starting the design process of such an important
> aerodynamic device they would have solved whatever
> the problem was before. I think it was clear to
> all to see that in testing they were supprised at
> their lack of pace, and of course when your
> windtunnel/sims saying you should 'X kg' of
> downforce at this speed, and they werent getting
> that, then it is very difficult to know where the
> problem lies.


Powerhorse/Pooky

Lol!

Maybe, but I dont think works for Mclaren anymore anyway :p

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

According to Autosport.com, Hamilton still chose to deny that he let Trulli past, even after they played to him the audio of him saying that he had done exactly that!

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senninho Wrote:
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> According to Autosport.com, Hamilton still chose
> to deny that he let Trulli past, even after they
> played to him the audio of him saying that he had
> done exactly that!

Indeed, and the source is the FIA themselves. Uh, oh....

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regardless, im almost chuckling that the shiny image the media has shown of hamilton is being eroded.

we all knew he was a ruthless winner, most are!

but all those golden boy calls from new f1 fans is finally fading.

and above all, someone who did make mistakes, did get punished, took stick, had crap cars and nearly lost it all is not in a position of glory.

and what is even BETTER than that, is the fact that jenson button's winning streak is only going to get far sweeter than lewis' championship win ever was, because he had the materials given to him from the start.

ahhhh, so if it makes me a fanboy? 3 out of 3 will answer you that, bring on china! :P

booya!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

People are liking Button for winning because he's like a kid again. He's clearly delighted to just be driving this year. The fact that he's got 2 out of 2 is merely the cherry. It's 100% exuberance, and it's all the more genuine and lovable for having been through everything in the past half a decade to get this far.

Hamilton's probably not a cold, calculating manipulator, but from his point of view it's a shame that's how McLaren like to paint their drivers these days. And whether or not that's what he's like, that's the image he's going to have slapped across his forehead for the foreseeable, as he doesn't have glory to fall back on, and his wonderfully crafted PR machine of 2007 has well and truly ripped itself apart... ironically since Alonso left. Hmm.

Tbh the stuff coming out at the moment is making it sound even worse for them, the fact that even when they were played the recordings they still lied.

I read what Ralf and Jackie Steward have said. I agree with Jackie that surly its not just one person in race control that can deal with questions in the race?

Hamilton was designed and built in the McLaren corporate mold by no less than Ron himself. Kind of ironic how he now appears to be nothing more than a whiny, evasive, lying, cheater when McLaren always tried to market him as a cold, calculating genius behind the wheel.

I'd love to see him leave McLaren and wind up driving for someone like Toro Rosso where everyone could see just what a flash in the pan he was...



"There are some pikeys there at Turn 10 putting tarmac down - what do you think of that?" - Martin Brundle