2009 Pre-Season Testing

Interesting that Renault are the only team so far to keep using the full anvil wing

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EC83 Wrote:
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> Interesting that Renault are the only team so far
> to keep using the full anvil wing


others will take it in use for sure.Ferrari has planned to use it in tests at Bahrain (if they just will have a chance to drive):D

RBR are very very fast probably the fastest 2009.

They are only a bit slower than mclaren who are running the 2008 rear wing, the rbr car is in full 2009 spec.

Going to be very interesting with them.

As for Renault oh dear, their car has shown no pace and so far appears to be the slowest of the 2009 cars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 06:19PM by marcl.

It's hard to judge Renault with them being on the back of a truck for half the sessions so far. They're not happy, certainly, but I don't think we can draw a conclusion as to where they are, more where they aren't - at the front.

Yeah good point there.

Its a shame for Alonso, his talent could be wasted for another year.

Though, Ferrari definitely did bring both nosecones for Bahrain, from today there's one or two photos only from the instalation lap with Kimi on number 4. But this stuff was already explained here before therefore no need to paste texts again...

Without being able to go on track, the guys of Ferrari then took advantage to test pit-stops.

Brackley team has signed Bruno Senna.

Apparently Bruno will partner Jenson and Honda will be at the grid. The funds will come from Petrobrás' contract, a personal Bruno Senna sponsor, some help from Bernie and the rest from Honda - who'll spend less money by having this reduced budget than paying off their workers' salaries.

Renault should have signed Barrichello, he has a lot of experience with all kinds of tires and in a year with brand new rules having someone with experience with slicks is vital. That could be Honda's demise, a rookie with very few years of racing experience and Jenson Button, 8 years in F1 racing with grooved tires.

marcl Wrote:
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> RBR are very very fast probably the fastest 2009.
>
> They are only a bit slower than mclaren who are
> running the 2008 rear wing, the rbr car is in full
> 2009 spec.
>
> Going to be very interesting with them.
>
> As for Renault oh dear, their car has shown no
> pace and so far appears to be the slowest of the
> 2009 cars.


way too early to say who is the fastes at the moment.Ferrari,BMW and Toyota are not testing in the same place so one of them or all of them could be faster than RedBull.Also fastest times don't tell the whole picture, what matters is the long runs.

Oh come on Gui. No one should sign that crap piece of "driver". Just because hes supposed to have "experience" in being slow with slicks? Bruno Senna will be better than him and has driven slicks in GP2. Both Jenson and Senna had driven slicks in lower formulae so it kinda defeats your argument.

Experience? Capable of developing cars? PFFF
Your "favorite" driver hasnt won a race @ Honda, unlike Jenson, and was not capable of improving their cars. All he did was just moan and whine about the car to the media instead of talking about it with his engineers like Jenson always did silently. Its just no good PR for Honda to say these things to the press. "This car acts like a parachute!", I'd have fired him after that if I was the team owner, come on, back in the 90's Ferrari had kicked out Prost for saying that their car was handling like a truck!!

Its not a coincidence that after a fantastic 2006 in a car which he had no input, Honda began its downfall when they started to hear him about their new cars. The RA107 and RA108 was an epic fail with his input. Where is his so called experience in it? pfff... Where are Stewart now? And Jordan?

He cant develop a car. He cant be fast. He cant be young. Whats the point of bringing him back then? If you want to see him for just this reason only (car & tyres development) then hire him as a test driver not as a race driver. Oh wait. In-season testing was banned. Therefore its important that race drivers get as much track time as possible. No space for him then.

Hire him because of his so called "experience with slick tyres" ?
Slick tyres are slick tyres, like a stone is a stone. Its behavior is not different to the drivers. They just have more grip than the grooved tyres and they will adjust according to it. These tyres are not a seven headed monster to them.

Another advantage of Senna over him, apart of his surname for PR, his speed and talent, is that he weighs less than him. Good for a car that may be running KERS.

F1 needs fresh new blood, instead of crap dinos like him, Fisichella, Webber, Trulli, Heidfeld...

Im glad to see that this turtle was finally kicked out of F1 after 257+ GPs without a single world title and a shameful weekend at the Austrian GP, for which I will never forgive him. His Ferrari years were a pain in the ass to watch.

Bring on Bruno Senna!

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 07:43PM by Bruninho.

Bruninho Wrote:
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> Where is his so called experience
> in it? pfff... Where are Stewart now? And Jordan?

I couldn't bring myself to read any more after this bit, but it may have escaped your attention that both Stewart and Jordan (and Ferrari for that matter) both massively improved in his time at those teams. Of course little had to do with him (he's hardly a designer or anything, both teams were still learning, and the driver's say on the car is minimal at best anyway), but to suggest that Barrichello was somehow to blame for the demise of both teams is completely beyond belief.

Bruninho Wrote:
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>... Where are Stewart now? And Jordan?


Wtf? What the hell does that have to do with Barrichello?

You talk about defeating your own argument, well you just did it with that line.

Bruninho Wrote:
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> Slick tyres are slick tyres, like a stone is a
> stone.


You must be wisdom's choosen one.

Well to be honest... I don't see Barrichello having a particular advantage in his knowledge of F1 slicks from 93-97. F1 have been on grooves for over 10 years now and the tyre compound and construction technology has moved on.

But I do feel that Bruninho completely lost tack with a unnecessary personal agenda against Barrichello. It wasn't like the core point was without some merit, but he completely destroyed it with his reasoning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 08:12PM by J i m.

Bruninho Wrote:
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> like Jenson always did silently...


Are you kidding Jenson's normally the first shouting his mouth off about how poor the car is!!!

Agree with Jim, Bruno turning yet ANOTHER thread into a 'I'm right everyone else is wrong thread'.

If Senna gets anywhere it'll be down to him having more money than talent.... Unfortunately money runs the world and not neccesarily the best driver will get a seat.... Besides he's got plenty of time... Senna to replace Piquet at Renault mid season.... lol

You have some valid points Bruno but you don't back them up correctly. Everything you say just decends into a bashing against anyone you don't like even if it was just a passing comment. I fail to see why you qualify to have theonly valid point regardless of anyone else.

Gui said Barrichello should have got a job somewhere because of his experience, and once again you've taken something harmless out of context and turned it into a verbal bashing, with no real fact to back up your argument. You'll never forgive him for the shameful Austrian weekend????!!! you blame rubens not Ferrari??? Outrageous that anyone would do as their employer told them?!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 09:01PM by bazza_racer.

@Gav: Stewart's maiden grand prix win came with his teammate (J.Herbert). Jordans best moment in F1 was when he wasnt there (D.Hill collecting the Spa win). What I am saying is, he had no influence in their success. These teams did it on their own. He is to be blamed for Hondas demise tbh.

@Jim: I asked where are these teams because Gui pointed out his "experience" to develop cars. Both arent in F1 anymore.

@Rodrigo007: Dude, I was saying that there are no secrets/mystery or a seven headed monster in dealing with slick tyres. Like Jim had pointed out, todays cars and slicks are WAY different than those he used in 93-97. So he has no advantage over them with that "knowledge" and all these drivers had driven a car with slick tyres in their junior formulas at least for once. Certainly, all of them know how to deal with them. Its just a question of getting used to them again.

@bazza: From what I have read on newspapers through 2008, Jenson was doing his PR with nice and proper descriptions about the car and its problems; his teammate was just whineing and complaining without giving the reasons like Jenson did; he was blaming the car, the tyres, the pitlane lights, a backmarker, Coulthard, Safety Car, the Race Directors, the fans, the team, FIA, the World. Interesting, that HE NEVER HAD ADMITTED anything he could be blamed for. As for Austria, I blame him (and Ferrari ofc) for being a coward, for not going against his team, yes.

My whole point here, and its ON THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD, I was questioning Gui's suggestion for teams to hire him. I was saying he is useless atm. His point was: "they should hire him because of his slicks knowledge" to which I could reply with Jim's argument to put his point down. So what? He's old, slow, is a whiner, and is not capable of developing things as seen in his previous teams - they all could be successfull without him. So, may I ask, why should teams hire him back? hes not better than these youngsters coming to F1, neither is compared to those that are in F1-2009.

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2009 09:38PM by Bruninho.

Apparently an official Honda statement is imminent:

[www.crash.net]

Good that Bruno Senna looks to be getting a chance, but a great shame Rubens isn't being paired with him. It would've been a great combination of youth and experience, and Rubens is actually a stronger driver than JB in my view, despite being the age he is.

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EC83 Wrote:
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> Apparently an official Honda statement is
> imminent:
>
> [www.crash.net]
> wn_e-mail_hints_honda_f1_saved.html
>
> Good that Bruno Senna looks to be getting a
> chance, but a great shame Rubens isn't being
> paired with him. It would've been a great
> combination of youth and experience, and Rubens is
> actually a stronger driver than JB in my view,
> despite being the age he is.

Well, in a british team, with a british management, surely you cannot have a fake brazilian and a true brazilian together. It had to be Jenson and Senna.

But, just tell me why you think he is stronger than JB? There is not a single point visible where he could be better than JB. If you compare their results while they raced together at Honda, JB's results are much better and respectable than his.

[OFF-TOPIC] For me, its not a shame hes out. Its a pleasure. Give his seat to younger drivers like Bruno Senna with much more to show than him. They'll do more than he could do. [/OFF-TOPIC]

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Why do you put OT-brackets around your last sentence while that is the only bit that's fairly on-topic out of the heap of RB-bashing that you've posted on this page?

@Gav: Stewart's maiden grand prix win came with his teammate (J.Herbert). Jordans best moment in F1 was when he wasnt there (D.Hill collecting the Spa win). What I am saying is, he had no influence in their success. These teams did it on their own.

Jackie Stewart said Barrichello was a key to the teams success. The GP Johnny won was a lottery. If you knew anything about F1, you would have known that.

He is to be blamed for Hondas demise tbh.

You have NO idea what the hell you are talking about.

And where are Stewart GP? Well Jackie and Paul sold it for much more than it cost to set it up. So you could say Stewart GP was a massive success, including the drivers. In fact Stewart GP is a perfect example of exceptional management. Setup a team, steadily improve, see the downfall of private teams coming, sell to a big company for a lot of money, roll in laughter. In the context of what it was and the time frame it operated in, Stewart GP has to go down as one of the most successful F1 teams as far as quick results, improved performance, and business decisions goes.

Oh man, that point came to bite you in the ass didn't it? Or more bend you over, lube you up and rape you hard.

Slick tyres are slick tyres, like a stone is a stone. Its behavior is not different to the drivers.

Bullsh*t. Go talk to Damon Hill and Jean Alesi, then come back and spout that crap.

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Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Apparently an official Honda statement is
> > imminent:
> >
> >
> [www.crash.net]
>
> > wn_e-mail_hints_honda_f1_saved.html
> >
> > Good that Bruno Senna looks to be getting a
> > chance, but a great shame Rubens isn't being
> > paired with him. It would've been a great
> > combination of youth and experience, and Rubens
> is
> > actually a stronger driver than JB in my view,
> > despite being the age he is.
>
> Well, in a british team, with a british
> management, surely you cannot have a fake
> brazilian and a true brazilian together. It had to
> be Jenson and Senna.
>
> But, just tell me why you think he is stronger
> than JB? There is not a single point visible where
> he could be better than JB. If you compare their
> results while they raced together at Honda, JB's
> results are much better and respectable than his.
>
> For me, its not a shame hes out. Its a pleasure.
> Give his seat to younger drivers like Bruno Senna
> with much more to show than him. They'll do more
> than he could do.


Well for one thing, JB hasn't proven himself capable of beating MS in a straight fight, in the same car. Also, Rubens has proved himself as a regular race winner; JB has only won one single race, and it could be argued that that win was a lucky one. As Gav pointed out above, each team Rubens drove for before Honda made great progress forwards while he was driving for them; Ross Brawn told Rubens after the British GP in 2000 that he'd done more to help Ferrari in four race meetings than Eddie Irvine had done to help them in four seasons. Argue with that?

Also, tell me why you think he's fake?

How you can see it as a pleasure that a talented driver and a genuinely good guy is being left behind by the sport before his time mystifies me.

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