Donington Park: The Revival

Silverstone is a great track. Only Brands Hatch can beat that. Donington is the third best british track.

Bruninho Wrote:
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> Modern Silverstone is crap. I liked thed 1988
> layout of the track, especially the final corners
> after the "Daily Express" bridge.
>
> Now we have two annoying final slow corners in a
> lap, which are a pain in the ass to drive...
>
> I personally prefer Brands Hatch or Donnington
> Park. Never been a fan of Silverstone really.
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Coming from the man that thinks the current circuit de Catalunya is awesome, I wouldn't have expected anything less.

But Catalunya has about 1 decent corner left. They've systematically destroyed the layout with hairpins and chicanes. I could fart a better layout than the current circuit.

Silverstone on the other hand is a good layout... it still has Cospe, Maggots, Becketts, Stowe and Bridge which are still very good corners indeed. Sure it would be awesome if the abbey kink instead of the chicane was used, and if we had the old woodcote corner instead of the luffield complex, but that would never be allowed in today's safety orientated society.

Silverstone is lousy because of the facilities, not the circuit and before you try debating the point remember that I've been there more times than I care to remember including in the stands, terraces, pits, paddock etc. Where as you've never been there at all.

I've also been to Catalunya, in the same way. It has better facilities than Silverstone in many ways, but the layout is a shadow of it's former self.

How many times have you been to either of them Bruno?

Brands! MEGA TRACK Luv it Even there, a lot of changes have been made. I don't like Graham Hill bend, was much better before. and Sheene Curve(?) Was a hell of a lot more interesting when it was the Dingle Dell chicane

Not sure why so many people are complaining about the facilities at Silverstone.... They're really not that bad. Bernie would love it to have a a complete overhaul and update it with hundreds of VIP boxes and flashy architecture, but that's not what Racing's about. Silverstone is a cracking track. If you say it doesn't provide any decent racing then you should compare it to many of todays modern circuits, how many of them have provided any racing at all..... at least it's got character, nearly every corner has an overtaking opportunity...

The way things are I say in less than 10 years we'll have tracks trying more "rustic" looking paddock areas since everything is being modernized and losing a certain nostalgic appeal

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Modern Silverstone is crap. I liked thed 1988
> > layout of the track, especially the final
> corners
> > after the "Daily Express" bridge.
> >
> > Now we have two annoying final slow corners in
> a
> > lap, which are a pain in the ass to drive...
> >
> > I personally prefer Brands Hatch or Donnington
> > Park. Never been a fan of Silverstone really.
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Coming from the man that thinks the current
> circuit de Catalunya is awesome, I wouldn't have
> expected anything less.
>
> But Catalunya has about 1 decent corner left.
> They've systematically destroyed the layout with
> hairpins and chicanes. I could fart a better
> layout than the current circuit.
>
> Silverstone on the other hand is a good layout...
> it still has Cospe, Maggots, Becketts, Stowe and
> Bridge which are still very good corners indeed.
> Sure it would be awesome if the abbey kink instead
> of the chicane was used, and if we had the old
> woodcote corner instead of the luffield complex,
> but that would never be allowed in today's safety
> orientated society.
>
> Silverstone is lousy because of the facilities,
> not the circuit and before you try debating the
> point remember that I've been there more times
> than I care to remember including in the stands,
> terraces, pits, paddock etc. Where as you've never
> been there at all.
>
> I've also been to Catalunya, in the same way. It
> has better facilities than Silverstone in many
> ways, but the layout is a shadow of it's former
> self.
>
> How many times have you been to either of them
> Bruno?

Jim, well I have never been to both tracks, but I was NOT criticizing the facilities of both tracks. I just criticized the track layout from a drivers point of view, not from a spectator point of view.

I do agree that the new final chicane and the new slow corner after Campsa are crap, but the whole layout is still fun to drive and to watch F1 onboard too. Can you imagine being able to go around Campsa flat out in fifth gear? Well, F1 2009 I doubt that they can do it with the aero loss, shame :P

As for the racing from a spectator (TV Spec, in my case) point of view. Well, Barcelona has been better than Silverstone for me. The luffield complex is what ruins it imho.

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Bruninho schreef:
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> I just criticized the track layout from a drivers
> point of view, not from a spectator point of
> view.

You can't, since you've never driven those tracks either.

Nickv Wrote:
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> Bruninho schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I just criticized the track layout from a
> drivers
> > point of view, not from a spectator point of
> > view.
>
> You can't, since you've never driven those tracks
> either.

Although in a racing game it isnt 100% accurate it does give you a good idea. esp. in rFactor.

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You've obviously never read any drivers comments about the tracks Bruno.

[>WHAT21A<] Wrote:
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> You've obviously never read any drivers comments
> about the tracks Bruno.


I do but I never copy their words. Why should I? I should have my own opinion instead of repeating their words like a parrot.

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Let me preface by saying I've never been to any of these tracks, so I can't really give any sort of proper opinion from that angle.

I will say is this however: Silverstone has provided some cracking races over the years, and from a GP2/GP3/GP4 point of view, I like it a lot as a track, whatever that is worth. From a spectator view, I've been at soccer, rugby and hurling matches where I've been sitting in the best stadium in my country, as well as been standing on a gravel bank in the worst stadium, supporting the same teams. I have enjoyed the closeness, the passion and the atmosphere in the crap facilities, with no toilet facilites and extremely basic amenities, far more than in the anti-septic "professional" arena, with shops, toilets, bars et all. I don't have a clue what it's like for the drivers, for Silverstone or Donington, and for them maybe Silverstone is a catastrophe. What I'm saying is this: from my experience, just because a place has better facilities, doesn't automatically mean it's a better experience. Of course I have no idea what Grands Prix will be like at a modern Donington, so I will not write it off, because it could be brilliant. I just reject the increasingly prevalent view that a place must meet a whole load of standards to provide a satisfactory experience for patrons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2009 04:18AM by The Lopper.

[>WHAT21A<] Wrote:
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> You've obviously never read any drivers comments
> about the tracks Bruno.


Indeed. You'd also find that pretty much every real driver rate Silverstone high on their list of good tracks to drive.

And they find Catalunya very boring, partly because they do many thousands of km testing there, but also because it just isn't that challenging anymore.

Well Said Lopper ::

Yes... well, all very spirited and all that. But there does have to be some standard. There has to be some level of comfort. It's no good if it's a total mud bath like a Glastonbury or something.

As far as I'm concerned good parking, good access, clean toilet facilities etc are actually very very important, especially since it's got to cater for a variety of people including people who are unfortunate enough to be disabled.

Silverstone took a long time to their public facilities any where near good enough, and even now they're not that great, especially since the BRDC were more interested in building themselves a prat house. Yes there is more tarmacked car parking, and there are now clean toilets. But the grandstands are mostly temporary and are only put up for the Grand Prix, most are uncovered. You might think it adds to the experience or character if you get wet... but if it rains all day you're going to be completely soaked to bone and feeling pretty miserable, and you wouldn't be able to see a great deal because of the rain.

Good facilities etc are actually very very important all the way down the scale, as it helps things run smoother, takes some of the stress away and generally makes a better environment for enjoyment.

You might think that good pitlane and paddock facilities are important. But there are. Don't forget the teams entertain a lot guests, mainly sponsors at both testing and the racing, they need to be able to impress some very important people.

from a purely spectator point of view i wouldn't say there was much wrong with silverstones facilities. yes a lot of the grandstands are either temporary or uncovered but then thats the case at a lot of circuits.

The cheapest general entry ticket will still get you a good spot. and you can walk the entire way round the circuit.

the car parks are 1000% better than they used to be. Access in and out is not that bad either when you consider the number of people.(and i'm told is a heck of a lot easier than getting out of barcelona)

and at least they have people picking up litter. Spa is always turned into a landfill site by sunday morning, if you don't get there early you end up sitting amongst the rubbish. its pretty disgusting.


its a shame really, as a lot has been done to silverstone over the years, all it really needs to complete it is a new pit/padock/media complex. if it had been built we wouldn't be having this discussion, but i guess the brdc only have themselves to blame for that



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2009 11:15AM by marwood82.

On the note regarding clean toilets, don't expect that at circuits :P. I'm glad I didn't need a #2 because they're disgusting... be it Indianapolis or Monza!

That's what happens when you ut 150,000 - 200,000 people in a small area. Things get messy.

Silverstones facility issue was with the teams areas, not the spectators anyway.

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All I can say is you should check out the jacks at a hurling match in Páirc Uí Chaoimh in Cork. Legend has it that Duke Nukem was partly based on them. They truly are exceptional. :S

I went to Silverstone last year on the Sunday, got utterly soaked sitting opposite the pits

The queue's for everything where huge, the toilets, the food places everywhere

We got stuck on the way home for about an hour in the car parks

But still was an awesome experience for me, the spirit there was great, to me that was the most important thing

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Just found this:

British Grand Prix venue “disappointingly weak,” says Cabe
19 January, 2009

By Dan Stewart

Redevelopment of Donnington Park for Formula 1 races slammed by design watchdog

The proposed redevelopment of Donnington Park to become a venue for the Formula 1 British Grand Prix has been comprehensively slammed by Cabe.

The government design watchdog labelled the plans “disappointingly weak,” and said the scheme reflects a “poor understanding of the site and the opportunities it offers.”

German motor-racing design specialists Tilke have drawn up the plans for the Derby-based circuit, but Cabe has emphatically failed to support the new scheme.

In its design review, Cabe criticised the scope of the masterplan, the landscape strategy, and the absence of a consistent design idea running through the site.

Tilke has been responsible for motor-racing track and venue design work in Germany, China, Bahrain and Spain.

Last year, F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone awarded Donnington a 10-year contract to host the British Grand Prix from 2010. Silverstone, which has regularly hosted the race since 1950, was shunned by Ecclestone following a dispute with its owners over improvements to the track.


And found this too:







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2009 04:46PM by bazza_racer.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> That's what happens when you ut 150,000 - 200,000
> people in a small area. Things get messy.
>
> Silverstones facility issue was with the teams
> areas, not the spectators anyway.

Donington should be interesting considering you could fit the entire layout in the infield of Silverstone. The site the track (Donington) is built on is not exactly big either.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.