honda will win 2009 wcc
Posted by red 5
This is what i think judging by the recent events.
They halted progress on 2008 contender as early as mid may infact to turn they efforts to 2009. They are way beyond ferrari, mclaren and BMW in KERS developement. The new car will be the first one to be produced in full under Ross Brawn surveilance. Ross Brawn is genius tactician, and next years new regulation package will need exactly that brilliant tactician to make the full use of the new regs. Looking forward to gravedig this after 365 days.
They halted progress on 2008 contender as early as mid may infact to turn they efforts to 2009. They are way beyond ferrari, mclaren and BMW in KERS developement. The new car will be the first one to be produced in full under Ross Brawn surveilance. Ross Brawn is genius tactician, and next years new regulation package will need exactly that brilliant tactician to make the full use of the new regs. Looking forward to gravedig this after 365 days.
tacticians != designers, so point for that is invalid
KERS is valid, but i dont see that being the major difference maker. will be interesting to see if the lack of aero (to simplify things) may play to their weaknesses
Sim
All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!
"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole
KERS is valid, but i dont see that being the major difference maker. will be interesting to see if the lack of aero (to simplify things) may play to their weaknesses
Sim
All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!
"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole
i think its too far to say that they will win, but they will definitely make good progress you would think.
but don't forget, several other teams turned to 2009 very early as well; williams, BMW, red bull are just a few i can think of.
i think red bull will go very well next year with two great drivers, an adrian newey car, 'unfrozen' renault engine, and an ever improving team.
X (@ed24f1)
but don't forget, several other teams turned to 2009 very early as well; williams, BMW, red bull are just a few i can think of.
i think red bull will go very well next year with two great drivers, an adrian newey car, 'unfrozen' renault engine, and an ever improving team.
X (@ed24f1)
Re: honda will win 2009 wcc
Date: October 27, 2008 04:47PM
Posted by: sasjag (IP Logged)
tacticians != designers, so point for that is invalid
elaborate
besides you are not obliaged to bite every bone that I throw
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 04:54PM by red 5.
Date: October 27, 2008 04:47PM
Posted by: sasjag (IP Logged)
tacticians != designers, so point for that is invalid
elaborate
besides you are not obliaged to bite every bone that I throw
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 04:54PM by red 5.
I think Sim is saying that Ross Brawn is a tactitian, not a designer, and that designers are the ones who really make a difference to the car.
I expect Honda to make an improvement, but tbh I can't see them coming close to the championship. I wouldn't be surprised if they will be as quick as, say, Toro Rosso are at the minute. Maybe if they do very well they could be as quick as Renault, but that's a long shot.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 05:21PM by flat tyre.
I expect Honda to make an improvement, but tbh I can't see them coming close to the championship. I wouldn't be surprised if they will be as quick as, say, Toro Rosso are at the minute. Maybe if they do very well they could be as quick as Renault, but that's a long shot.
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 05:21PM by flat tyre.
Re: honda will win 2009 wcc new
Date: October 27, 2008 05:16PM
Posted by: flat tyre (IP Logged)
I think Sim is saying that Ross Brawn is a tactitian, not a designer, and that designers are the ones who really make a difference to the car.
quote:
He quickly moved up through the ranks, working in the R&D department and as an aerodynamicist in the team's wind tunnel.
source: [en.wikipedia.org]
besides I saidnew car will be designed under surveilance of RB just like mid 90 benettons were and early 00 ferrris. I didnt say he will design the new car.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 05:31PM by red 5.
Date: October 27, 2008 05:16PM
Posted by: flat tyre (IP Logged)
I think Sim is saying that Ross Brawn is a tactitian, not a designer, and that designers are the ones who really make a difference to the car.
quote:
He quickly moved up through the ranks, working in the R&D department and as an aerodynamicist in the team's wind tunnel.
source: [en.wikipedia.org]
besides I saidnew car will be designed under surveilance of RB just like mid 90 benettons were and early 00 ferrris. I didnt say he will design the new car.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2008 05:31PM by red 5.
Even I realise Honda will not do that well.
They have been dedicating resources to 2009, but I dont think as much as people are making out. It will not be too much more than BMW, Toyota, Williams adn RedBull imo. They have still been introducing the little developments like all the other teams. 2008 is still priority until the cars cross the line at Brazil, if they do!!
Like Sim said Brawn is not a designer. He is an engineer though, and does obviously posess a great deal of knowledge of Aerodynamics. His main role for Honda will be to optimize the way in which they do things at the race and at the factory. Trying to get the best out of the equipment and the people.
KERS is something Honda seem to have dedicated alot of time and development too, but after hearing at the FOTA/FIA meetings they were on the list to halt it a year ( i think so anyway ) then they cant be too confident of having such a better system than BMW or Toyota for example.
I dont think there is any doubt with anyone here or in F1 that Honda will improve over this year. The real question and the one no-one wants to know and everyone wants to know is just how much can they improve? They certainly will not be in a championship contending posistion by logic, but then again who knows.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
They have been dedicating resources to 2009, but I dont think as much as people are making out. It will not be too much more than BMW, Toyota, Williams adn RedBull imo. They have still been introducing the little developments like all the other teams. 2008 is still priority until the cars cross the line at Brazil, if they do!!
Like Sim said Brawn is not a designer. He is an engineer though, and does obviously posess a great deal of knowledge of Aerodynamics. His main role for Honda will be to optimize the way in which they do things at the race and at the factory. Trying to get the best out of the equipment and the people.
KERS is something Honda seem to have dedicated alot of time and development too, but after hearing at the FOTA/FIA meetings they were on the list to halt it a year ( i think so anyway ) then they cant be too confident of having such a better system than BMW or Toyota for example.
I dont think there is any doubt with anyone here or in F1 that Honda will improve over this year. The real question and the one no-one wants to know and everyone wants to know is just how much can they improve? They certainly will not be in a championship contending posistion by logic, but then again who knows.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
I'm sceptical about any chances of Honda in 2009 Season. I prefer to wait for their RA109 rollout and to see if they will give Bruno Senna a seat or not...then i'll comment about them - I really dont support them anymore after 2007/2008 epic fails, which made me quite disappointed and move my support to BMW Sauber.
But considering how they are now, they have no chance with that car and with the current slowpoke teaming up with Magic Jenson.
But considering how they are now, they have no chance with that car and with the current slowpoke teaming up with Magic Jenson.
Honda I think will be better in '09 than this year, but imo BMW and Kubica are the dark horses for the '09 crown.
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Have to wait for the first testing next year but they Will be Lucky to Go better then this year
BMW, Mclaren, Ferrari, Redbull, Renault and maybe Force India (With Mclaren) Will be better then them
The other teams have also been working on their czars for next year and they have a lot better base to start with even with the rule changes!
The Thunder from Downunder
BMW, Mclaren, Ferrari, Redbull, Renault and maybe Force India (With Mclaren) Will be better then them
The other teams have also been working on their czars for next year and they have a lot better base to start with even with the rule changes!
I dont understand why people is putting too much faith in Ross Brawn... the guy isnt a magician.
Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont understand why people is putting too much
> faith in Ross Brawn... the guy isnt a magician.
He isnt a magician, but he is one of the most versatile and intelligent minds in the F1 paddock. I do not think Honda will even be in the top three but I do believe they will be about 5 or 6 depending if Toyota are able to keep their momentum. Remember as much as Honda has sunk they still know how to be competitive and have proven themselves before, they also have a lot of money which helps a lot.
I really cant see the other teams making too much improvements, even with the new regs. Maybe Williams may spring a surprise in the first races but most probably will drop backwards through the
season.
But then again I only know that I know nothing, so who knows maybe STR will be wcc
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont understand why people is putting too much
> faith in Ross Brawn... the guy isnt a magician.
He isnt a magician, but he is one of the most versatile and intelligent minds in the F1 paddock. I do not think Honda will even be in the top three but I do believe they will be about 5 or 6 depending if Toyota are able to keep their momentum. Remember as much as Honda has sunk they still know how to be competitive and have proven themselves before, they also have a lot of money which helps a lot.
I really cant see the other teams making too much improvements, even with the new regs. Maybe Williams may spring a surprise in the first races but most probably will drop backwards through the
season.
But then again I only know that I know nothing, so who knows maybe STR will be wcc
gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I dont think there is any doubt with anyone
> here
> > or in F1 that Honda will improve over this
> year.
>
> *puts hand up*
>
> They may improve pace wise, compared to the front
> or the gaggle behind the leading 2, but I still
> think they'll be stuck at the back.
>
> Force India will be much improved, vastly so if
> they get the rumoured McLaren support, so I'm
> dubious that they won't be stone last. I'm worried
> for Williams next year - they never seem to make a
> decent fist of regulation changes, though of
> course little remains from the last major shift.
>
> Honda will be much better as a team, but the car
> itself... hmm. An improvement, yes... enough to
> lift them from the final 2 or 3 rows... I just
> can't see it somehow.
>
> That they'll win the WCC is just laughable.
> They've not got a hope in hell of a single victory
> (save for some funky Singapore/Hockenheim/Monza
> like race), let alone sustained wins.
Agree, Force India will actually be a force next year, but like has been said Honda do know how to be competitive, and this year has been a build up to being competitive again with many changes at track and back at the factory. Brawns comments on the tyres and testing milage going into winter are clear obvjectives on how much they want to be competitive again. Honda will certainly not be in the same posistion next year.
I agree about Williams, they really do imo need some major manufacture support. This year looked like it was going to be a year of return for them, especiallt after Aus! I even thought the dark horse would be Nico! But somewhere along the line they've just lost touch with this year. In terms of time lost to the front I would say they have lost the most and fallen back the furthest
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
-------------------------------------------------------
> chet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I dont think there is any doubt with anyone
> here
> > or in F1 that Honda will improve over this
> year.
>
> *puts hand up*
>
> They may improve pace wise, compared to the front
> or the gaggle behind the leading 2, but I still
> think they'll be stuck at the back.
>
> Force India will be much improved, vastly so if
> they get the rumoured McLaren support, so I'm
> dubious that they won't be stone last. I'm worried
> for Williams next year - they never seem to make a
> decent fist of regulation changes, though of
> course little remains from the last major shift.
>
> Honda will be much better as a team, but the car
> itself... hmm. An improvement, yes... enough to
> lift them from the final 2 or 3 rows... I just
> can't see it somehow.
>
> That they'll win the WCC is just laughable.
> They've not got a hope in hell of a single victory
> (save for some funky Singapore/Hockenheim/Monza
> like race), let alone sustained wins.
Agree, Force India will actually be a force next year, but like has been said Honda do know how to be competitive, and this year has been a build up to being competitive again with many changes at track and back at the factory. Brawns comments on the tyres and testing milage going into winter are clear obvjectives on how much they want to be competitive again. Honda will certainly not be in the same posistion next year.
I agree about Williams, they really do imo need some major manufacture support. This year looked like it was going to be a year of return for them, especiallt after Aus! I even thought the dark horse would be Nico! But somewhere along the line they've just lost touch with this year. In terms of time lost to the front I would say they have lost the most and fallen back the furthest
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Re: honda will win 2009 wcc new
Date: October 28, 2008 12:28PM
Posted by: chet (IP Logged)
Agree, Force India will actually be a force next year
just because they'll buy few screws, springs and sway bars form Mclaren they'll instantly became force!?
Date: October 28, 2008 12:28PM
Posted by: chet (IP Logged)
Agree, Force India will actually be a force next year
just because they'll buy few screws, springs and sway bars form Mclaren they'll instantly became force!?
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