Ferrari calls for team orders rule tweak ****MODERATED****
Posted by LS.
Formula 1’s team order rules need to be changed to reflect the fact that team-mates should be allowed to help each other during a race.
That is the view of Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo, who says he will speak with FIA president Max Mosley to discuss what he calls the “hypocrisy” of the current interpretation.
Team orders were banned in the sport in 2002 following the widespread outrage that greeted Ferrari’s ordering of Rubens Barrichello to give race victory up for team-mate Michael Schumacher in the Austrian Grand Prix in the early stages of the season.
And while no such blatant hand-over has been seen since, there have been incidents where drivers have let their faster team-mate through and drivers backing off to gift a position to his title-chasing stable-mate – often prompting questions about whether this is technically legal.
The most recent example came in Shanghai last weekend when Kimi Raikkonen slowed to allow fellow Ferrari driver Felipe Massa through to second place to aid the Brazilian’s championship push.
Montezemolo says something needs to be done to clarify that there is nothing wrong with this type of team tactic.
“I'll talk about it with Mosley – we must get rid of this hypocrisy,” he told Italy’s Gazzetta dello Sport newspaper.
“The important thing is not to damage others.
“Aside from that, teamwork, in a team sport, is one of the best things; think of a cyclist leading the sprint for another.”
Montezemolo also voiced his views on the recent controversial stewards’ decisions, which have hit both his and rival McLaren’s title hopes at various points of the campaign.
The Ferrari president believes these haven’t particularly been a negative for the sport this year, and instead again points the finger at the new street races in Valencia and Singapore.
“Perhaps they have been a bit too fussy, but I agree with them, otherwise grands prix will become a jungle,” he said.
“But the problem is the new circuits that won’t allow for a good show. One Monaco is enough.”
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 01:27AM by mortal.
That is the view of Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo, who says he will speak with FIA president Max Mosley to discuss what he calls the “hypocrisy” of the current interpretation.
Team orders were banned in the sport in 2002 following the widespread outrage that greeted Ferrari’s ordering of Rubens Barrichello to give race victory up for team-mate Michael Schumacher in the Austrian Grand Prix in the early stages of the season.
And while no such blatant hand-over has been seen since, there have been incidents where drivers have let their faster team-mate through and drivers backing off to gift a position to his title-chasing stable-mate – often prompting questions about whether this is technically legal.
The most recent example came in Shanghai last weekend when Kimi Raikkonen slowed to allow fellow Ferrari driver Felipe Massa through to second place to aid the Brazilian’s championship push.
Montezemolo says something needs to be done to clarify that there is nothing wrong with this type of team tactic.
“I'll talk about it with Mosley – we must get rid of this hypocrisy,” he told Italy’s Gazzetta dello Sport newspaper.
“The important thing is not to damage others.
“Aside from that, teamwork, in a team sport, is one of the best things; think of a cyclist leading the sprint for another.”
Montezemolo also voiced his views on the recent controversial stewards’ decisions, which have hit both his and rival McLaren’s title hopes at various points of the campaign.
The Ferrari president believes these haven’t particularly been a negative for the sport this year, and instead again points the finger at the new street races in Valencia and Singapore.
“Perhaps they have been a bit too fussy, but I agree with them, otherwise grands prix will become a jungle,” he said.
“But the problem is the new circuits that won’t allow for a good show. One Monaco is enough.”
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 01:27AM by mortal.
"we must get rid of this hypocrisy"
Lol! Bit two-faced form Ferrari.. Bit like Ford in WRC..
Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?
Lol! Bit two-faced form Ferrari.. Bit like Ford in WRC..
imo they are being the hypocrites, not the fans who argue against team orders (like me). I have never seen F1 as a "team sport" and I never will. For me, the champion must win by his own merit, must fight for it.
If Formula One is perceived as a sport, then maybe team orders are a bad thing.
But F1 is not a sport, it's a business. For 2 hours every fortnight - a tiny, tiny amount of the time that each F1 team spends carrying out its business functions - drivers race against each other, and this gives the mistaken impression that Formula One is a sporting competition.
If F1 is perceived as a business, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with all employees united in favour of a common outcome. It makes good commercial sense to do one's utmost to secure an accolade such as the Drivers' Championship. And if that means requesting that your employees arrange themselves to secure that accolade, I see nothing wrong with it from a business perspective.
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But F1 is not a sport, it's a business. For 2 hours every fortnight - a tiny, tiny amount of the time that each F1 team spends carrying out its business functions - drivers race against each other, and this gives the mistaken impression that Formula One is a sporting competition.
If F1 is perceived as a business, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with all employees united in favour of a common outcome. It makes good commercial sense to do one's utmost to secure an accolade such as the Drivers' Championship. And if that means requesting that your employees arrange themselves to secure that accolade, I see nothing wrong with it from a business perspective.
Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imo they are being the hypocrites, not the fans
> who argue against team orders (like me). I have
> never seen F1 as a "team sport" and I never will.
> For me, the champion must win by his own merit,
> must fight for it.
Keep dreaming honey, from the 50's to 2008 there have always been team orders in F1 and all F1 champs have benefited in a way or other from them, from Fangio to Senna to Schumacher to Kimi and even Lewis
-------------------------------------------------------
> imo they are being the hypocrites, not the fans
> who argue against team orders (like me). I have
> never seen F1 as a "team sport" and I never will.
> For me, the champion must win by his own merit,
> must fight for it.
Keep dreaming honey, from the 50's to 2008 there have always been team orders in F1 and all F1 champs have benefited in a way or other from them, from Fangio to Senna to Schumacher to Kimi and even Lewis
Stan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imo they are being the hypocrites, not the fans
> > who argue against team orders (like me). I have
> > never seen F1 as a "team sport" and I never
> will.
> > For me, the champion must win by his own merit,
> > must fight for it.
>
>
> Keep dreaming honey, from the 50's to 2008 there
> have always been team orders in F1 and all F1
> champs have benefited in a way or other from them,
> from Fangio to Senna to Schumacher to Kimi and
> even Lewis
Senna never used team orders.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imo they are being the hypocrites, not the fans
> > who argue against team orders (like me). I have
> > never seen F1 as a "team sport" and I never
> will.
> > For me, the champion must win by his own merit,
> > must fight for it.
>
>
> Keep dreaming honey, from the 50's to 2008 there
> have always been team orders in F1 and all F1
> champs have benefited in a way or other from them,
> from Fangio to Senna to Schumacher to Kimi and
> even Lewis
Senna never used team orders.
J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Senna never used team orders.
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Senna blocked Lotus signing up Derek Warwick,
> because he perceived him as too much of a threat.
>
> Face it, as great as Senna was he only ever went
> up against one team-mate who had championship
> calibre, that's paramount to having permanent
> number one status which is very team orderly.
Nope.
LMAO Derek Warwick a threat? Don't make me laugh. He was rubbish and would never have matched him. PMSL... Derek Warwick a threat... hahahahahahahahaha.... he had no history, no talent, why would someone be scared of him? 1 year ago, Elio de Angelis was the #1 Lotus Driver, Senna the #2, and the brazilian ace kicked his ass.
Seriously, he knew that Lotus didnt had enough resources to give two potentially good cars so he told them not to bring Derek into the team. Lotus was financially ill, JPS was about to leave them, and Derek would just be an irritating idiot complaining and making pressure through the british media for Warr and Ducarouge to give him the same car when the team didnt had resources for it.
Senna was the reason why Lotus lasted so long in F1, had they allowed Warwick in, they'd folded before 1987.
It would be like Piquet vs Mansell @ Williams in 1987. But the difference is, back then Williams HAD resources for two potential WC cars.
There is a big difference in blocking a poor driver to protect a financially ill team and blocking a good driver to request #1 status in a big team.
And I reiterate that he has never requested #1 status in his career. In 1993 before Monza he couldnt understand why Andretti wasnt given the same treatment and car, so he asked them to give him an equally good car. And Andretti got a podium after that...
And in 1994, he even wanted to race Prost again at Williams. He even wanted to do it for free. Prost ran away scared like hell. If Senna wasnt scared of Prost, why would he be scared of a slowpoke like Warwick?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Senna never used team orders.
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Senna blocked Lotus signing up Derek Warwick,
> because he perceived him as too much of a threat.
>
> Face it, as great as Senna was he only ever went
> up against one team-mate who had championship
> calibre, that's paramount to having permanent
> number one status which is very team orderly.
Nope.
LMAO Derek Warwick a threat? Don't make me laugh. He was rubbish and would never have matched him. PMSL... Derek Warwick a threat... hahahahahahahahaha.... he had no history, no talent, why would someone be scared of him? 1 year ago, Elio de Angelis was the #1 Lotus Driver, Senna the #2, and the brazilian ace kicked his ass.
Seriously, he knew that Lotus didnt had enough resources to give two potentially good cars so he told them not to bring Derek into the team. Lotus was financially ill, JPS was about to leave them, and Derek would just be an irritating idiot complaining and making pressure through the british media for Warr and Ducarouge to give him the same car when the team didnt had resources for it.
Senna was the reason why Lotus lasted so long in F1, had they allowed Warwick in, they'd folded before 1987.
It would be like Piquet vs Mansell @ Williams in 1987. But the difference is, back then Williams HAD resources for two potential WC cars.
There is a big difference in blocking a poor driver to protect a financially ill team and blocking a good driver to request #1 status in a big team.
And I reiterate that he has never requested #1 status in his career. In 1993 before Monza he couldnt understand why Andretti wasnt given the same treatment and car, so he asked them to give him an equally good car. And Andretti got a podium after that...
And in 1994, he even wanted to race Prost again at Williams. He even wanted to do it for free. Prost ran away scared like hell. If Senna wasnt scared of Prost, why would he be scared of a slowpoke like Warwick?
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