Bruno Senna to test for Honda

...I am deleting all my posts. This forum does not deserve my presence here. I am disgusted at some members behaviour and all protection they get. just because they came here before me. BS.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2008 06:02PM by red 5.

red 5 Wrote:
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> there was certain JPS lotus lotus breaking a lot
> during 85 and 86. Thell me why bruninho. Was
> driver incompetent to keep it in one piece?


It wasnt breaking, it was running out of fuel because the crappy Renault engines had a high fuel consumption rate back then. When he changed to Honda, presto! it was better.

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Can you stop calling everything you don't like crappy? Otherwise I'll start doing the same.

Now this is crappy!



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Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...

THE SIG


Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.

Presto!

Senna ran out of fuel in a McLaren HONDA, at the end of some races. Indeed I think it happened for 3 years running at Silverstone, hilariously enough each time at the same corner!

Now, tell me does that mean that the Honda (Ford in 1993), a championship winning engine in those days no less... was a crap engine or does it mean that Ayrton was an epic failure and "disgrace" to you?

An engine with high fuel consumption doesn't need to be @#$%&, teams only have to install bigger tanks or make longer stops.

________________________________________

Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...

THE SIG


Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.

...I am deleting all my posts. This forum does not deserve my presence here. I am disgusted at some members behaviour and all protection they get. just because they came here before me. BS.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2008 06:02PM by red 5.

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> red 5 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > there was certain JPS lotus lotus breaking a
> lot
> > during 85 and 86. Thell me why bruninho. Was
> > driver incompetent to keep it in one piece?
>
>
> It wasnt breaking, it was running out of fuel
> because the crappy Renault engines had a high fuel
> consumption rate back then. When he changed to
> Honda, presto! it was better.


or he could of eased of the loud pedal!

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

red 5 Wrote:
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> actually it was honda (1987) that was running out
> of fuel.
>
> Renault (1985,1986) was good on consumption but
> the car broke for other reasons.
>
> but it is all utter crap, it was all directed
> show. Senna never existed actually. It was
> bruninho's imaginary friend.


Right let's get some facts straight!
The Honda turbo was very fuel effecient compared with the Renault or any other turbo. The Renault was widely regarded as being thirsty compared with the Honda and Porshe TAG engines.
Senna also suffered a number of turbo failiures in '85 and '86 that cost him several race wins. He did twice in 1985 due to fuel read out errors and once in 1986 due to his own fault.
Senna never ran out of fuel in 1987.

red 5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> actually it was honda (1987) that was running out
> of fuel.
>
> Renault (1985,1986) was good on consumption but
> the car broke for other reasons.
>
> but it is all utter crap, it was all directed
> show. Senna never existed actually. It was
> bruninho's imaginary friend.


It was the Renault that was running out of fuel. I can clearly remember the news about ppl criticizing him for that and Senna replying back to them.

The honda was breaking because Lotus was trying to pioneer the active suspension, something that Williams had mastered in the early 90's.

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Bruninho Wrote:
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I have read your posts in this thread. You are one deluded fool.

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> red 5 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > actually it was honda (1987) that was running
> out
> > of fuel.
> >
> > Renault (1985,1986) was good on consumption but
> > the car broke for other reasons.
> >
> > but it is all utter crap, it was all directed
> > show. Senna never existed actually. It was
> > bruninho's imaginary friend.
>
>
> It was the Renault that was running out of fuel. I
> can clearly remember the news about ppl
> criticizing him for that and Senna replying back
> to them.
>
> The honda was breaking because Lotus was trying to
> pioneer the active suspension, something that
> Williams had mastered in the early 90's.

It was running out of fuel because Senna's driving style would use more fuel. A comparison between the Honda engines in Williams and Lotus cars confirmed this, and Senna changed his driving style since.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

I can't believe Senna changed his style

He didn't change his style, the Renault engine was thirsty the Honda was not.

mikef1 Wrote:
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> He didn't change his style, the Renault engine was
> thirsty the Honda was not.


I'll quote from the book "The Life of Senna"... page 140, last 2 paragraphs. ISBN: 0-9546857-3-3


But the face remained that Senna's two years with Renault engines had been blighted by poor fuel consumption, blamed squarely on the Renault turbo engine, and the French manufacturer was harangued for failing to rectify it. The engines were seemingly the thirstiest on the grid, and this had cost a probable four race wins in 32 races, forcing Senna time and time again to slow down and conserve fuel.

After Senna's death, Peter Warr made a telling observation about the fuel consumption problems. He said the team had found that in 1987, with the Honda engine, Senna's fuel consumption was the worst in the field. Warr believed that he was driving it so fast that its fuel consumption was higher.

He told Senna biographer Christopher Hilton: "It was because he had this throttle control technique - blip-blip-blipping in the corners. The reason we had these suspicions was because he kept coming up as the worst of the Honda drivers on fuel consumption. That was partly because he was going the quickest and partly because he was blipping the throttle." The revelations forced him to adapt his driving style. He would not be caught out again.

On a separate note, that book's a bloody good read. There's a LOT of information about Senna's life. Recommended if you're a fan.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Ive got that one. Goes upto 1992?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Bruninho schreef:
>
> He broke down because of his own incompetence to
> keep the car in one piece.
>
> Interesting that it was always ONLY his car, not
> his teammates car breaking in every race

And it is your incompetence that you don't know your history or facts.
Rubens was with 8 finishes of 13 of Jordan the driver with the most finishes.
He finished 50% of his races, the other finishes where from Irvine, 1 out of 2 and Boutsen, 4 out of 8, also 50 %. The other 3 drivers hadn't finished at all.

I'm so sick of your hypocrisy towards your own favourite driver Piquet jr, who almost every race weekend makes mistakes or just hugely disappoint



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2008 12:37AM by Pluis.

chet Wrote:
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> Ive got that one. Goes upto 1992?


The one I have goes up to and beyond 1994, crash and trial, aftermath and legacy to drivers, fans, the sport. There's a LOT of detail.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

I too have this book, havn't got round to finishing it yet. Just gone past the aftermath with the interviews and thoughts of his close friends and family, some of it's hard reading... but a very good insight though.

"Racing is LIFE. Anything before or after is just waiting"
Steve McQueen.

turkey_machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mikef1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He didn't change his style, the Renault engine
> was
> > thirsty the Honda was not.
>
>
> I'll quote from the book "The Life of Senna"...
> page 140, last 2 paragraphs. ISBN: 0-9546857-3-3
>
>
> But the face remained that Senna's two years with
> Renault engines had been blighted by poor fuel
> consumption, blamed squarely on the Renault turbo
> engine, and the French manufacturer was harangued
> for failing to rectify it. The engines were
> seemingly the thirstiest on the grid, and this had
> cost a probable four race wins in 32 races,
> forcing Senna time and time again to slow down and
> conserve fuel.
>
> After Senna's death, Peter Warr made a telling
> observation about the fuel consumption problems.
> He said the team had found that in 1987, with the
> Honda engine, Senna's fuel consumption was the
> worst in the field. Warr believed that he was
> driving it so fast that its fuel consumption was
> higher.
>
> He told Senna biographer Christopher Hilton: "It
> was because he had this throttle control technique
> - blip-blip-blipping in the corners. The reason we
> had these suspicions was because he kept coming up
> as the worst of the Honda drivers on fuel
> consumption. That was partly because he was going
> the quickest and partly because he was blipping
> the throttle." The revelations forced him to adapt
> his driving style. He would not be caught out
> again.
>
> On a separate note, that book's a bloody good
> read. There's a LOT of information about Senna's
> life. Recommended if you're a fan.


Haven't got that book but i have seen it and it does look good.
Senna didn't stop blipping the throttle as part of his technique he just did it less.
Also the Lotus with the Honda engine was somewhat heavier than the Williams Honda in 1987 (due to the active suspension) so that accounted towards some of the fuel comsumption problems.