Canadian GP Thread ***SPOILERS***

SexySam182 Wrote:
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> "I start ten places back in the next race. It's a
> bit harsh really. I didn't aim to ruin anyone's
> race." Whether he aimed to or not he still cost
> Raikkonen a possible win.

Taking that stance, you could again apply it to the Kimi/Sutil Monaco coming together. Why do you have to be attempting a move or aiming to take someone out if you've destroyed their race? If your brakes fail or something, fair enough.

This needs clearing up for me, as the difference between the 2 accidents (ignoring the fact this was in the pitlane) aren't massive. It's too much of a grey area.

The arrogance, cockiness and even influence many thought he had last year is going to his head. He's starting to miss the fact that F1 doesn't revolve around him.

Gav I do 100% agree with you about an accident being accident no matter where it happens. Yes Lewis took kimi out the GP in the pit lane, but kimi also took sutil out the race in monaco both were caused by driving errors be it at 50 mph or 200mph and both should get the same punishment.

As I said Nakajima took Kubica out the race in Australia and got a penalty he was not trying to pass him either he just got his braking wrong under safety car conditions. So why did he get a penalty and kimi not? also why did Fissi not get one for taking nakajima out the race in Turkey and Alonso for spinning Nick round and damaging his car.

I agree with the penalty just think the others should have got the same.

Yeah, it's a bit confuse and subjective.

marcl schreef:
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> Gav I do 100% agree with you about an accident
> being accident no matter where it happens. Yes
> Lewis took kimi out the GP in the pit lane, but
> kimi also took sutil out the race in monaco both
> were caused by driving errors be it at 50 mph or
> 200mph and both should get the same punishment.
>
> As I said Nakajima took Kubica out the race in
> Australia and got a penalty he was not trying to
> pass him either he just got his braking wrong
> under safety car conditions. So why did he get a
> penalty and kimi not? also why did Fissi not get
> one for taking nakajima out the race in Turkey and
> Alonso for spinning Nick round and damaging his
> car.
>
> I agree with the penalty just think the others
> should have got the same.

i wish kimi got a 10 place penalty, then he proberly would have finished the race!! Dont forget Kimi now has 2 no point finishes, isnt that more then enough as a punishment for driving sutil out of the race?

Thats not the point lol but I bet Sutil and Force India had a smile on their faces seeing as it was Sutils car that caused the pit stop thing if you know what I mean.

I just dont think the race Stewards are being consistant when giving out the penalties thats all.

It used to be if you took someone out the race you got one now it does not seem to always be the case. Yes the kimi penalty would have been harsh as he lost control of the car but he did take a car out and hitting that car allowed kimi not to hit the barrier and finish the race.

They need to decide what they are going to do. Either every accident is treated as a racing accident and no penalties are given (unless someone blatently deliberately takes someone out). Or in every accident the party at fault gets a 10 place grid penalty (or some other punishment as long as it is the same everytime). They need that black and white system so no-one can say they were hard done by.

---

How is Hamilton not disappointed? To win the Championship you need to win "your" races. Canada was a race that Hamilton and McLaren should have won by rights. I'd say the DNF hurts them more than it would hurt Kimi.

SexySam182 Wrote:
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They need that
> black and white system so no-one can say they were
> hard done by.


No chance. It simply isnt possible, and I invite anyone who thinks it is to go ahead and design one. The F1 powers that be would love to hear from you.

I think the system is pretty black and white, and my interpretation is this:

An incident where the car is not under the drivers control, and couldn't reasonably be expected to be, will go unpunished and be considered a racing incident.

An incident that occurs at a time when it would be reasonable to expect the driver to be in control of his car, will be considered an avoidable accident, and subsequently punished.

Of course the stewards from race to race may have different opinions, they always have, I think the level of consistency vs home ground advantage is nor perfect but reasonable.

No one is ever going to be happy. Kimi would have been so angry to get a penalty for loosing control of the car, its a tough 1 to call really.

Had lewis done that to kimi in monaco I am sure more people would be saying give him a penalty though? and I bet he would have got one as well.

I gotta say I dont think its a tough call at all, kimi in monaco was a racing incident, simple as, unfortunate but a thats racing. Remember 05 I think at Spa or maybe 04 when Button had a blowout and completey took out a minardi, not much different and button wouldnt have had got a penalty, I know one youcould put down to driver error but still.
I just think when its in the pits and you under more regulations and theres clear cut RULES you have to apply to its pretty fair of the outcomes in the last 2 races.
I know everyone is entitled to a opinion but I cant see anything unclear and therefore your all wrong

marcl Wrote:
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> No one is ever going to be happy. Kimi would have
> been so angry to get a penalty for loosing control
> of the car, its a tough 1 to call really.
>
> Had lewis done that to kimi in monaco I am sure
> more people would be saying give him a penalty
> though? and I bet he would have got one as well.


I very much doubt it. Remember Lewis crashing into Fernando at Bahrain and runing both their races, did he get punished for that? All i remember is people accusing Fernando of brake testing him.

Exellent point Mike

Kimi should never have been side by side with Kubica in the first place. If he was behind Kubica then Lewis turning left would have meant nothing.

_______________________________________________________________________

There are no rules saying you cant be side by side. Also if you watch the footage, Kimi gets released just a fraction later than Kubica and it was fine for the lollipop man(or lights in this case) to let him go

Iceman-Kimi schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcl schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gav I do 100% agree with you about an accident
> > being accident no matter where it happens. Yes
> > Lewis took kimi out the GP in the pit lane, but
> > kimi also took sutil out the race in monaco
> both
> > were caused by driving errors be it at 50 mph
> or
> > 200mph and both should get the same punishment.
> >
> > As I said Nakajima took Kubica out the race in
> > Australia and got a penalty he was not trying
> to
> > pass him either he just got his braking wrong
> > under safety car conditions. So why did he get
> a
> > penalty and kimi not? also why did Fissi not
> get
> > one for taking nakajima out the race in Turkey
> and
> > Alonso for spinning Nick round and damaging his
> > car.
> >
> > I agree with the penalty just think the others
> > should have got the same.
>
> i wish kimi got a 10 place penalty, then he
> proberly would have finished the race!! Dont
> forget Kimi now has 2 no point finishes, isnt that
> more then enough as a punishment for driving sutil
> out of the race?


No. Stupid actions, like Kimis, like Hamiltons, have to be punished. A no-score isn't a punishment but a result of the stupid action. A no-score isn't a punishment and it should never, ever be seen as one.

i would loose my drivers license if i´d miss a red light. perhaps same for lewis...

Many interpretations of Lewis move, Kimi's position in the pit lane... but at the end, Lewis didn't stop on time. It is red light, what do you have to do...stop. And for one thing or another, Kubica is leading the championship!!!!!

And for Renault, they now really seems to be closer (at least Alonso) to the top. He is taking a lot of risks and this is making him to loose a lot of points due his mistakes (with more conservative approach he would have maybe 5 or 6 points more) but they were quite competitive this time. Alonso was much faster than Nick and despite he was lighter, that was a dream few races ago, I had the impression his pace wouldn't have been much slower than Kubica's so we'll see in France...

The championship is again veeery tight.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2008 10:42PM by Ali.

Nickv schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iceman-Kimi schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > marcl schreef:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Gav I do 100% agree with you about an
> accident
> > > being accident no matter where it happens.
> Yes
> > > Lewis took kimi out the GP in the pit lane,
> but
> > > kimi also took sutil out the race in monaco
> > both
> > > were caused by driving errors be it at 50 mph
> > or
> > > 200mph and both should get the same
> punishment.
> > >
> > > As I said Nakajima took Kubica out the race
> in
> > > Australia and got a penalty he was not trying
> > to
> > > pass him either he just got his braking wrong
> > > under safety car conditions. So why did he
> get
> > a
> > > penalty and kimi not? also why did Fissi not
> > get
> > > one for taking nakajima out the race in
> Turkey
> > and
> > > Alonso for spinning Nick round and damaging
> his
> > > car.
> > >
> > > I agree with the penalty just think the
> others
> > > should have got the same.
> >
> > i wish kimi got a 10 place penalty, then he
> > proberly would have finished the race!! Dont
> > forget Kimi now has 2 no point finishes, isnt
> that
> > more then enough as a punishment for driving
> sutil
> > out of the race?
>
>
> No. Stupid actions, like Kimis, like Hamiltons,
> have to be punished. A no-score isn't a punishment
> but a result of the stupid action. A no-score
> isn't a punishment and it should never, ever be
> seen as one.


but my opinion is everyone can lose his car on track, to bad for sutil but these things happen, and sutil always likes davidson's back end last season, never got punished but if your team tells you theres a red light at the end of the pit, and he said himself he saw the red light, then WTF was he doing? it isnt @#$%& racedriver grid that you need to tap the brake to come to a stand still

If you apply the pit lane rules fully then yes kimi and ferrari broke them as kimi was released when kubica was alongside and as i said he could not have done that had kimi not had the pit and the end that leads straight out. But at the end of the day lewis still it him so 2 wrongs dont make a right. Should kimi have been next to kubica in the pit lane no, has it been looked at no. So next time someone is released in the pits next to someone they better not get a penalty.

Also Alonso said lewis hitting his car did not affect him. Its the same as what JB did to Nick in Monaco.

Was lewis stupid yes, was nico stupid yes remember lewis was not the only one to crash like this. I personally think they should be started at the back of the grid for the next race, then they will learn.

I d agree its a stupid rule though the pit lane is either open or not, and they used to be able to join the queue after a pit stop during a safety car period. The other cars on the track were going far to slow and should have passed way before they did. They had 25 seconds to clear the main straight but u had some just round corner 2 and some still on the straight with a huge gap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2008 12:22AM by marcl.