Williams FW16 - The Remains

mikef1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well Adrian Newey is well known for making the
> cockpits as small as possible in his designs for
> aero efficiency reasons, that goes back to the
> Leyton House days. How Nige managed to fit in
> those cars without having to be shoehorned remains
> a mystery to me.
>
> Senna was used to a bigger cockpit at Mclaren and
> had trouble adapting to the Williams that required
> a lot of steering input during that part of the
> season to go fast without banging his hands on the
> sides. If Williams had designed a cockpit like the
> Benetton or Ferrari of that year (both had high
> noses) i reckon Senna would have probably
> survived.


exactly my point and it answers nicely to senninho i think.

---

Yes but you could also say had senna not been driving a williams he would not have crashed etc. No one knows.

The wheel did not hit him on the side anyway it was on the head so no matter what car he was in it still would have killed him. Had the wheel not hit his head senna would have been alive without 1 single broken bone. It was a freak accident most people who went off there went in sideways not the angle senna did.

Driving different car wouldnt have made any big difference. Document what I saw did show how Senna did too big "fixing" movement, so instead of just "sliding" out he made situation just more worse. Needs really bad luck that so small driving-error causes death.


And what comes to Neweys cars.. 1 of his McLarens was even illegal because of too small (and thin) cockpit area. As luck of Mika any big crashes didnt happen and like usually FIA didnt show any interest, so he was allowed to win the championship with this car.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes but you could also say had senna not been
> driving a williams he would not have crashed etc.
> No one knows.
>
> The wheel did not hit him on the side anyway it
> was on the head so no matter what car he was in it
> still would have killed him. Had the wheel not
> hit his head senna would have been alive without 1
> single broken bone. It was a freak accident most
> people who went off there went in sideways not the
> angle senna did.


I read that it was a piece of the suspension piercing his skull?

Yeah it was, the right suspension was crushed by the wall when he crashed and a piece popped up and pierced his helmet

It was a freak accident, without that piece of suspension he would of probably walked away from the incident

---

Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Yes it was attached to the wheel just did not want to say that really as it makes me feel sick.

I remember the doctor saying had hi not been for the famous crash helmet he would have never known it was senna in the car.

That was Patrick saying he made the driving error saying senna backed off and caused a lose of down force, then he said it was a bump that cause the car to loose front end grip.

Senna had done that corner hundreds of times no driver has ever gone off there due to a driving error its always been a car problem, its a nothing corner flat out with. I dont beleive for 1 min it was a driving error why was senna looking in the cockpit then? why did he not get the car at a better angle its rubbish i still dont think there was any steering working in that williams.

Well I remember someone saying that at the time of the crash that many people heard Patrick Head, in front of the TV monitor, when Senna started to go straight, shouting "Steering power!"

And at the time of the impact "What happened to the steering?"

And before restart Hill was told to shutdown the (allegedly secret) power steering system in his car.

---

Yes I heard about that as well.

marcl Wrote:

> Senna had done that corner hundreds of times no
> driver has ever gone off there due to a driving
> error its always been a car problem, its a nothing
> corner flat out with. I dont beleive for 1 min it
> was a driving error why was senna looking in the
> cockpit then? why did he not get the car at a
> better angle its rubbish i still dont think there
> was any steering working in that williams.


Exactly, the other three accidents that occured at the Tamburello have all been mechanical or tyre related failiures. The other thing that annoys me is that people ignore or forget that Senna had done a lap at full speed the lap before his accident.

"Driving different car wouldnt have made any big difference. Document what I saw did show how Senna did too big "fixing" movement, so instead of just "sliding" out he made situation just more worse. Needs really bad luck that so small driving-error causes death."

Er sorry? The Williams had very low cockpit sides which meant his head went way out of the cockpit, the Ferrari and Benetton by contrast had comparatively high cockpit sides making it far less likely for that to happen in a similar accident.

Also Senna made no driving error, that documentary that you are referring to is the one that tries to absolve Williams and pin the blame on Senna himself as all the data was provided by them to look innocent.

The data from the car had been played with if I remember right.

The anoying things is that race should not have even started. Roland according to some people died in his car not on the way to the hospital. If that was true the race should not have taken place. We will never ever know this but it sound like the whole weekend was a cover up.

As said looks at Sennas car control in the past he did not make that kind of error, it was and easy slide to correct. From ms on board all you saw was senna not go left he just went straight a 3 time champ does not make that mistake just no way.

After 1 lap at the speed senna done his tyres would have been ok, had they not been how did he do that lap time? why did he not loose the car on the parade lap or saftey car?

Agree with the previous 2 posts. Senna set the 3rd fastest lap of the race, and he only did 1 full lap at racing speeds (the one before he crashed). I hated everything about that 'documentary'. Half the things they said were complete bollocks, and I didn't agree in the slightest with the conclusion they arrived at.

Roland did die in the car. Perhaps he was momentarily revived at the circuit (in that his heart may have started beating by itself briefly), but he was dead on impact.

3 things could have killed Senna apparently. The small suspension piece piercing his helmet, being hit in the face with a wheel and the wheel forcing his head backwards against the head support. Whether that's true or not, I don't know - I can't say I can quite believe the final one, though the others are entirely feasible.

I also don't buy into the story that Senna was recognisable only by his helmet. You could clearly identify who it was from the aerial shot. Perhaps from a distance it helped, but I'm fairly sure his face or head wasn't disfigured.

Regarding Patrick Head shouting something about the steering from the pit-wall, I can't believe that's even remotely true. They've never had that data on the pit-wall, and even in the garage that's been limited - it was normally in the trucks behind the garages back then. He couldn't have said it purely from the TV pictures - the only 2 available at the time were the shot from Schumacher's car and that looking down the straight from Villeneuve. Neither were enough to diagnose a fault. The only way he could have realised is if he himself was overseeing the fitting or connecting of something relating to the hydraulics involved and realised within seconds of Senna crashing that they'd forgotten to do something, or done it wrong. I can't even begin to think how there could be a shred of truth in that.

The infamous on-board shot, supposedly truncated at 2 different points, is clear to me. The wheel twists away in his hand. The steering column already separating or separated, the latter the most likely, given that it was seen hanging out of the car while they were working on Senna. There's nothing on that video to suggest even the slightest oversteer and correction - the car just stopped turning.

What I find hard to believe, is that the On-board footage stops just before the car leaves the track, it has already lined up for the wall, but the footage just stops. The 'director' stated that he cut to the trackside camera just before impact. Prior to the accident, the camera was on Schumacher's car. So if the footage was "wiped", then how come we have the first part of Senna entering the corner from his on-board, even though it was not going to air? Yet it stops prior to his impact, which would reveal the steering column destruction.

Williams most likely paid off the director to pay a scapegoat/alibi to cover up the collapse of the wheel column.

I find it hilarious how this comes around and the same thing is said every year.

The susspension had crushed his forehead so thats why they say they would not have known it was him.

The whole thing is Roland died in the car they all broke the law letting the race start, that is why it was a cover up Berine would have lost to much money. As I said it can not be proven only people there know what really happened and thats probably why senna got told off as he went to help, senna would have probably known Roland was dead but told not to say it. All of this is speculation.