Ferrari lawyer comments on McLaren appeal

They had to reject the appeal it was the only reasonable thing to do. Stripping title of kimi and giving it to Hamilton would make 2007 season even more disatrous in terms of politics and behind the scene gameplay than it already is, they just wanted to put the end to a championship that at few points this season threatened to ruin the image of f1 in general.

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marcl schreef:
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> All this shows is its fine to run illegal cars as
> long as its not a mclaren.
>
> Ferrari, bmw and williams all finished ahead of
> mclaren this year with cars that were illegal.
>
> Why did ferrari even have to comment though about
> this, they had nothing to do with this appeal.
>
> So next year now its fine for fuel to be chilled.

Yeh, mclaren did nothing wrong this year, they didnt had any drawings of another team, they did not ran to much rain tyres in practise brasil,

So so f**king what about having those plans.. Car was legal anyway (exept maybe suspension according to team wich have more info about it lol). In my opinion McLaren should have been kicked out for rest of season.. But no. In FIAs' opinion it was ok to let them fight for title as long as Ferrari wins it anyway.

How about Ferrari using WRONG tires? Illegal floor? Flexi wings?


Whole f**king season was FIAsco anyway.. Why not atleast making title unofficial after so much s**t??

@Nickv

FIA cannot follow that teams are following their rules. When its clear that somebody is breaking rules FIAT can make excuses for not changing anything if it is "better for sport". And they can change rules when ever its "better for sport".

They cannot take care of dimensions of different components, materials beeing used, weigh of cars/different parts, temperatures, amount of part xx what have to be used for xx many races, etc.. Actually about f**king anything..

And soon starts again classic @#$%& with who is using hidden traction-control and/or launch-control..

And no matter what happens they continue same lottery with giving penalties during races..




FIAs' rule book have even more holes as story of holy bible. Amen.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

IWE schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So so f**king what about having those plans.. Car
> was legal anyway (exept maybe suspension according
> to team wich have more info about it lol). In my
> opinion McLaren should have been kicked out for
> rest of season.. But no. In FIAs' opinion it was
> ok to let them fight for title as long as Ferrari
> wins it anyway.
>
> How about Ferrari using WRONG tires? Illegal
> floor? Flexi wings?
>
>
> Whole f**king season was FIAsco anyway.. Why not
> atleast making title unofficial after so much
> s**t??
>
> @Nickv
>
> FIA cannot follow that teams are following their
> rules. When its clear that somebody is breaking
> rules FIAT can make excuses for not changing
> anything if it is "better for sport". And they can
> change rules when ever its "better for sport".
>
> They cannot take care of dimensions of different
> components, materials beeing used, weigh of
> cars/different parts, temperatures, amount of part
> xx what have to be used for xx many races, etc..
> Actually about f**king anything..
>
> And soon starts again classic @#$%& with who is
> using hidden traction-control and/or
> launch-control..
>
> And no matter what happens they continue same
> lottery with giving penalties during races..
>
>
>
>
> FIAs' rule book have even more holes as story of
> holy bible. Amen.


Wrong tyres all due to receiving the email to late, about the floor, the fia did not saw it in the technical inspection, so they where legal, there only was a gap in the rules, after the race the fia closed the gap and ferrari stopped using it. About flexi wings, that was last season, get your facts right.

Sorry.. It was also at this season..

Just not so xtreme like it was in start of 06 with frontwing what was made like this year floor. These were clear moving aero-components what didnt need any tests to be find as illegal.


Edit: This year it just wasnt even worth of mentioning in media because it continues anyway.. Lst year FIA asked to modify wings more stable but that didnt change much.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 11:09PM by IWE.

Well why wasnt it mentioned in reliable media?

Date: November 16, 2007 10:06PM
Posted by: Iceman-Kimi (IP Logged)

Well why wasnt it mentioned in reliable media?

Becuase its grade-A bullsh*t.

The last time Ferrari were accused of flexable wings, it was just rubbish. Newsflash: All cars flex. The test is if they flex to give an advantage. Then to top off peoples stupidity, Ferrari just put a tiny cover over the end of the front wing and said "fixed" when infact it was still moving in the same way, it was just less visible.

The tyre problems were Ferraris fault, however they were punished for it. Since they got punished you can hardly say that was biast towards them.

Anyway, as I already posted, McLaren claimed the BMW and Williams should be disqualified on the grounds that unreliable, unconfirmed data was good enough to prove the teams broke the rules. And THEN they claimed that disqualifying teams from the race means the drivers should be removed too - which would mean McLaren were totally thrown out of the 2007 championships.

At the end of the day, McLaren can count themselves lucky, because if the FIA used there logic then McLaren wouldn't have been in the title fight at all. McLaren lost both titles themselves. Even if there hadn't been the spy row, McLaren still got there Hungarian GP points removed which was enough to give the title to Ferrari come Brazil. Ferrari won both titles fair and square this time.

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theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

Look at facts: Almoust all teams (read best ones) always try to find hole in the rooles, thats happen all time (atleast from when I watching F1 - about '94).
There haven't saints in buisness (...ups, sorry, sport).
It is definitly pointles to argue with it...
All cheats, but when you caught then you are in trouble. Simple as that, or not. Like in all sort of politics (kgggh*money*hhhtg) there are always BIG players and SMALL players, and face it that Ferrari and McLaren are the biggest players in F1.
Total score this season 2:0 to Ferrari (on track and off-track).
End of stoy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2007 12:00AM by stipe.

What should have happened as in the past.

BMW and Williams should have lost their point but the drivers keep theres.

But nothing was done at all.

Look at Brazil 1995 Williams and Benetton lost their points for fuel problems. 2000 think it was Mclaren lost the points mika scored in Austria.

2001 DC lost his points from Brazil due to the nose of the car moving due to bumps.

All the above gave the teams no advantage, yet williams and bmw did get an advantage and nothing was done.

I think its good kimi kept the championship, but yet again the FIA have changed what has been done in the past.

Let now see what they do with renault, or will they change this as well

Look at Brazil 1995 Williams and Benetton lost their points for fuel problems.

Williams and Benetton were disqualified because the fuel samples which Elf supplied at the start of the weekend did not match the fuel taken from the cars after the race. The drivers were allowed to keep there points because it was not performance enhancing and simply a mistake by Elf, Williams and Benetton.

2001 DC lost his points from Brazil due to the nose of the car moving due to bumps.

McLaren claimed the front wing was broken by the bumps, but the FIA inspectors could find no sign of damage. The wing was 7mm too low, outside of the 5mm tolerance which was set. Coulthard lost his points because a lower wing *is* performance enhancing.

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theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

7mm is quite alot too actually !

also, lol @ brazil and teams being ermm illegal ? !

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I think that Williams and BMW broken a little rule, so the maFIA should fine the teams, and they and their drivers won´t lost the points. The McLaren drivers didn´t lose their points with the spy scandal so why the Williams and BMW drivers should lose their points????

well like Williams F1 team said no proofs was found that the fuel was actually too cold because there were different temperatures everywhere:

"1. Article 6.5.4 of the FIA Technical Regulations states that no fuel on- board the car may be more than 10C below ambient temperature.

"2. There is no specified source for the ambient temperature measurement, and there is no homologated and sealed sensor for measuring fuel temperature either in the fuel rigs or on-board the cars.

"3. Meteo France, who provide official temperature measurements for the FIA and Formula One teams, recorded a maximum ambient temperature during the Brazilian GP of 33C.

"4. The lowest temperatures recorded by Williams' precise on-board sensors in the fuel tank and in the fuel injection rail on either of its cars during the Grand Prix were 31C and 35C respectively.

"5. Consequently, as the Stewards found, there was no breach of the regulations.

"6. All of the preceding points are consistent with all of the clarifications and opinions related to fuel temperatures expressed in Team Managers' Meetings and other such forums. The views offered in these meetings fully support Williams' case as presented to the FIA ICA.


source:[www.autosport.com]

IWE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry.. It was also at this season..
>
> Just not so xtreme like it was in start of 06 with
> frontwing what was made like this year floor.
> These were clear moving aero-components what didnt
> need any tests to be find as illegal.
>
>
> Edit: This year it just wasnt even worth of
> mentioning in media because it continues anyway..
> Lst year FIA asked to modify wings more stable but
> that didnt change much.

well according to several F1-sites and magazines not only Ferraris floor flexed too much also other teams needed to change their design example BMW,Toyota and suprise suprise McLaren.

well, i'm happy Kimi keeps the title at least.

i just wish they had got all these temperature facts correct on the day of the race, then it wouldn't have had to go this far.

instead of doing a proper investigation, finding something wrong, deciding on a penalty, then reporting it to the media, they thought they found something wrong, weren't 100% about it, reported it to everyone, then McLaren saw this as their opportunity and carried it further.

if the stewards or inspectors had done it all correctly and thoroughly in Brazil after the race, none of this would have happened.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

vesuvius Wrote:
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> "2. There is no specified source for the ambient
> temperature measurement, and there is no
> homologated and sealed sensor for measuring fuel
> temperature either in the fuel rigs or on-board
> the cars.

I'm sorry, but am I the only person who finds that statement completely farcical? IF there is to be a rule about ambient temperatures at fuel-rigs and in cars, surely there has to be a specified way of measuring it?

There isn't. This rule is obviously fubared...I also don't know why you people are making such a big fuss here. You are really a part of a small minority that is thinking this turned out to be a bad thing.

As I said I dont think its a bad thing that nothing was done to the drivers but I do think the teams should have lost their points thats all.

Dave you are right about the mclaren nose in 2001 I forgot that it lowered that much I thought it only twisted.

Anyway I am glad 2007 is finally over I just hope next year we have none of the stuff that happened this year.

I agree. The next year will been runned on the tracks, no on the desks

It was another embarrasing cock up for the FIA in it's rule interpretation but at least something will be done to stop this happening again. It does look as if Williams were innocent imo.

From ITV-F1:

Michael explained why the ambient and fuel temperature readings used in Bauer’s scrutineering report were unreliable.

“The FOM temperature is not an official FIA temperature in any way at all – and that is one of the points that was made clear,” he said.

“FOM have a temperature sensor, but it was clear up to two years ago that that was not very accurate and was in no way accurate enough to be used as regulatory.

“This was documented in a Sporting Working Group meeting on December 7, 2006.

“The FIA reconfirmed that in the ICA hearing on Thursday. They said the FOM temperature is used as a guide but sometimes it’s clear that it is inaccurate and when that happens they use Meteo France to determine what the real temperature was.

“With regard to the fuel rigs, the sensors are not standard, as McLaren have continually claimed to the ICA.

“In fact the sensors are different between teams up and down the grid depending on when you ordered your fuel rig.

“In fact some of them haven't been calibrated for seven years. They are not sealed in any way, they are not tamper-proof. So there is no control over them at all.

“It was never intended to be a regulatory device and [fuel rig manufacturer] Intertechnique have acknowledged that.”

Michael acknowledged that the regulations need to state precisely how both ambient and fuel temperature are to be measured, and expects this to be addressed at next month’s meeting of the Technical Working Group.

“The two issues from that are the fact that there is no official measurement on board the car and likewise there is no official sealed and homologated measurement off-board the car,” he said.

“So there is no accurate measurement possible, so clearly we need to sort something out there.

“Also the ambient temperature probably needs to be specified within the regulations.

“It's been clear until now that the FOM is used as a guide and Meteo France is a review.

“I'm quite sure that it will come up at the next TWG to define what we will do for 2008, so there are some things that need to be clarified there.”