McLaren Appeal

Hi,
I have been searching everywhere if the FIA has announced yet when it will make a ruling or hear the appeal from McLaren against Williams and BMW from the Brazilian GP.

I hope everything stays as it, as that could seriously harm F1 for many years I believe.

November 15

And from what I can gather, it won't change the championship result.

Ah great,

Thanks for that!

I hope you are right that nothing will change.

It would be good for F1 if it wud change. Atleast it wud finally show that there is atleast some rules, punishments and basic rights left..

Earlier this year much talked 100000000€ did finally end to just 50000000€ and so on.

And nobody did get punished for anything what did happen during whole season (except some wrong punishments what drivers did get for every touch to other cars on track).

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

It would be highly hypocritical of the FIA to DQ the drivers and not just strip them of their constructor points. It is exactly the same scenario as Brazil 95, and its also the same as the McLaren fiasco, it was the TEAMS fault, not the drivers.

It could be the making of a very black day for F1.

IWE Wrote:
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> And nobody did get punished for anything what did happen during whole season.

Um, Mclaren lost all their points for doing @#$%& all wrong?
Alonso moved down the grid for doing @#$%& all wrong?

Not to mention that whenever there is an attempted overtaking manouvre anywhere, the FIA seems to investigate it. Plenty people got punished for nothing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 11:43AM by loque.

loque Wrote:
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>Plenty people got punished for nothing.


Exactly. Punishments for some minimal touches on track.

McLarens' punishment was just poor joke from FIA. If you say McLaren did get real / too high "punishment", then I say BAR did get banned for nothing few years back.

What happened to Alonso was 100% right (like also was for MS in Monaco 2006).

There wud have been also some real reasons to give punishments to some teams/drivers but no.. It wouldnt have fit in FIAs' story called "2007 Formula One season".

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

loque Wrote:
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>Plenty people got punished for nothing.

I also agree...Kubica in Fuji for example. Fair enough, he tried an ambitious move but definitely not one deserving of a drive through.

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Circuit Thermalito

Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)

In 1995, Williams and Benneton have the same issues. The teams lost the points, no penalty for the drivers. I think that will happen the same





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 02:04PM by Frantic.

In 1995, Williams and Benneton have the same issues.

I think this should be clarified. It was not the same issues. The issue in 95 was that the fuel that Elf supplied before the race didn't match the fuel they ran during the race. It offered no performance advantage and the drivers were allowed to keep there positions.

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even if the 3 cars are disqualified from the Brazil race, it doesn't mean Lewis will automatically be moved up to 4th, he could stay 7th and just the 3 cars will be missing from the result. that would be strange, but it could happen.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

It happened before; brazilian gp 1982

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are you blind? -no, I'm deaf, can't you see? -no, I'm blind.

But the FIA sensors were faulty. While the FIA was saying that the ambient temperature was 37 degrees and 60 degrees on track, a French company hired by Interlagos was getting 34 degrees ambient and 44 degrees on track. So even if McLaren appeal, it won't do much good, since the FIA can't really be 100% of their findings. That's why the team weren't penalized in the first place.

brnco Wrote:
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> It happened before; brazilian gp 1982


yes, but Balestre was in charge back then, i know some think max has favorite teams and drivers makes rules up as he goes along to help out his mates, but i can assure you he's not a patch on Balestre.

The FIA have had a few opportunities to get involved in the drivers title battle this year and have for the most part stayed out of it. i dont see that changing now. if anything BMW and williams will be fined, at worse expect loss of constructors points.
after whats happened with the constructors championship they wont want to hand out the drivers title in a court room.

That's exactly the same point I had, and Muks when he wrote that three places will be void, and WC won't change. So what is the point of the post than? And what's balestair got to do with all that. He was strange man, but he only favoured french drivers that's all. He didn't destroy the sport like Mosley is doing.

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are you blind? -no, I'm deaf, can't you see? -no, I'm blind.

marwood82 Wrote:
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> brnco Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It happened before; brazilian gp 1982
>
>
> yes, but Balestre was in charge back then, i know
> some think max has favorite teams and drivers
> makes rules up as he goes along to help out his
> mates, but i can assure you he's not a patch on
> Balestre.
>


It was the era of FISA vs FOCA with Balestre in one corner and Ecclestone in the other.
The South African race of 1982 was a disaster with the race taking place 8 days after it's original date after the drivers went on strike concerning FISA's new ruling on contracts and licences.
If you think that the FIA is bad now it's nothing compared with the political ramblings of the 70s and 80s.

brnco Wrote:
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> That's exactly the same point I had, and Muks when
> he wrote that three places will be void, and WC
> won't change. So what is the point of the post
> than?

erm, i was agreeing with you, is that not allowed?

>And what's balestair got to do with all
> that. He was strange man, but he only favoured
> french drivers that's all. He didn't destroy the
> sport like Mosley is doing.

i can only assume you weren't around for the FISA FOCA war then.


sneaking small print into the drivers racing licences.

half the teams staying away from races in protest at the way regulations were being applied.

the general farce the 1982 championship descended into.

manipulating the rules to favour the richer turbo runners against the cosworth teams

kicked tyrell out in 84 to remove opposition to further rule changes that favoured the turbos.

his handling of end the 89 championship.

Max actually ran for FISA president in 91 to save the sport from him.(now there’s an historical irony for you)

What happened in the 1982 championship? As far as I know, Rosberg was champion with only one race win.

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Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять

Lex Wrote:
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> What happened in the 1982 championship? As far as
> I know, Rosberg was champion with only one race
> win.


the drivers strike,
clauses were snuck into the small print of the drivers licences regarding their contracts and what teams they could drive for.

lauda promptly read his licence pointed this clause out and as a result at the south african grand prix they all went on strike, balestre promised that if they came out and raced they'd sort it out and they wouldn't be penalised,

(if i remember correctly this turned out to be a lie and they were all fined anyway).

after that the legendary 'water bottle row' (instegated by changes to the weight limits pushed through by balestre to favour the turbo cars) resulted in the san marino grand prix having half the grid missing and results of the previous races being changed retrospectivly.

as mikef1 said, you think things are bad now, its mild compared to whats gone on in the past.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 04:50PM by marwood82.

marwood82 Wrote:
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> lauda promptly read his licence pointed this
> clause out and as a result at the south african
> grand prix they all went on strike, balestre
> promised that if they came out and raced they'd
> sort it out and they wouldn't be penalised,
>
> (if i remember correctly this turned out to be a
> lie and they were all fined anyway).

Yep, Jean Marie basically lied to Pironi who was leading the strike on behalf of the drivers that no sanctions would be put on them if they agreed to race but fined them in the end, what a wanker!
Respect to your F1 historical knowledge marwood.