Ten-year freeze on engines! :-o

part of me cant help but feel this is to try and force the manufacturers out and bring privateers in


and another part of me says give it 2 years and the engine rules will change again

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

sasjag Wrote:
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> and another part of me says give it 2 years and
> the engine rules will change again

Nail and head.

As soon as it becomes viable, either commercially or from a publicity point of view, to go (more) environmentally friendly, F1 will. They won't let a piece of paper get in the way of that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 01:41PM by gav.

HOLY @$%! CRAP!!!!!!!!! FIA, U SUCK!!!!

I CANT BELIEVE IT!!! Unless FIA changes the engine rev rule, THEN I AM DEVASTATED!!!

Surely this won't be good for the sport. i was hoping that the v10's would comeback and then somebody came and threw it all away!!!

and about the rule not lasting that long, it may not happen since oil companies are bursting with joy that F1 will be using Petrol for 10 years. And to keep it that way, they will use the power of money to convince FIA to leave it unchanged.

DANG YOU!!!! MICHAEL SCHUMACHER, SAVE US!!!! USE YOUR F1 SUPERSTAR STATUS TO DO SOMETHING!!!!

with much pain
-teh_$L!cerer

Could not have said it better myself!

sasjag Wrote:
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> part of me cant help but feel this is to try and
> force the manufacturers out and bring privateers
> in
>
>
> and another part of me says give it 2 years and
> the engine rules will change again

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Morbid Wrote:
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> Could not have said it better myself!
>
> sasjag Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > part of me cant help but feel this is to try
> and
> > force the manufacturers out and bring
> privateers
> > in
> >
> >
> > and another part of me says give it 2 years and
> > the engine rules will change again


Other than the grammar and punctuation perhaps?.

mikef1 Wrote:
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> Other than the grammar and punctuation perhaps?.
>


That is just so ironic.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

wrong, wrong, wrong the FIA dont ave a fooking clue whats best do they?

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A friend of mine was asking how could teams like McLaren and Ferrari improve their engines power when there is a "engine freeze" rule in F1.

I tried to explain to him that I think that the "core" of the engine should remain the same and that the parts around it could be changed if they were able to show to FIA that it was only for reliability purposes.

But what exactly they can change to improve them completely, including in terms of horsepower? Because we've read somewhere that McLaren gained 25hp this season despite of that "engine freeze" rule. Same goes for Ferrari.

I tried to do a search on the subject but my internet is completely slow atm and first search results weren't helping either.

Can someone help me with my friend there?

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When you improve something's reliability, you inevitably make it better. In the case of engines, every move you make towards better reliability makes it more powerful. The 2 are linked.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

seems ok to me, doesnt REALLY make any difference when watching two cars fight for the victory up to the last lap!

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[en-gb.facebook.com]

turkey_machine Wrote:
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> When you improve something's reliability, you
> inevitably make it better. In the case of engines,
> every move you make towards better reliability
> makes it more powerful. The 2 are linked.




Sim

---

All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

KERS is about to become the new battleground then.

sasjag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> turkey_machine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When you improve something's reliability, you
> > inevitably make it better. In the case of
> engines,
> > every move you make towards better reliability
> > makes it more powerful. The 2 are linked.
>
>
> [i256.photobucket.com]
> lwut/lolwut.jpg


Don't doubt my logic. Most of the teams pushing for better engine reliability this year have made their engines more powerful. Ferrari and Mercedes are the key instigators in this area (remember Ferrari at the beginning of the year? No wonder they have the most powerful engine in the field now), and Renault are making further strides too; why do you think they (along with probably Honda and Toyota, and I'm sure BMW wouldn't miss the opportunity either) want the opportunity to get their engine on the same level as the others?

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

But what you said was that a part upgraded to improve reliability automatically made it more powerful. They aren't linked. Some teams are linking them where they can, but it's not a given that a more reliable part gives more performance.

I believe he means that before teams were holding back on their engine power to not risk reliability, but with newer and better parts they're then confident to unleash the engine's power. And new parts can also have slightly different materials/design that can increase overall power due to being more efficient, so I guess Jethro couldn't word himself too well there!

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But what you said was that a part upgraded to
> improve reliability automatically made it more
> powerful. They aren't linked. Some teams are
> linking them where they can, but it's not a given
> that a more reliable part gives more performance.

thank you gav!

turkey_machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't doubt my logic. Most of the teams pushing
> for better engine reliability this year have made
> their engines more powerful. Ferrari and Mercedes
> are the key instigators in this area (remember
> Ferrari at the beginning of the year? No wonder
> they have the most powerful engine in the field
> now), and Renault are making further strides too;
> why do you think they (along with probably Honda
> and Toyota, and I'm sure BMW wouldn't miss the
> opportunity either) want the opportunity to get
> their engine on the same level as the others?

what will happen is a team will identify a problematic part through various methods, and then go to the FIA and say "can we have permission to alter this component for reliability purposes" and the fia will look at the data and go "ok"

now, since the FIA have given them permission to change the design (AFAIK any moving component can be altered for reliability purposes), they would be stupid not enhance the design to allow teh engine to produce more power whilst they are at it.

now, simply put, engine power is a combination of revs and inertia. since revs are limited, the easiest way to increase power is to reduce inertia. reducing inertia means making lighter/smaller components. making lighter/smaller components increases the stress that component will be under. increasing the stress a component is under makes it more likely to fail....

anyway my point is that my expertise > your logic

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2008 04:20AM by sasjag.

You explained it better than I have, but your "LOL WUT" implied you knew jack s**t.

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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.