Hamilton's Japanese win under investigation!

I agree that Vettel has to partly be in fault for that incident, I mean when someone gets rammed from the rear the person doing the ramming always has to take some of the blame, but 100% his fault? Can't agree with that at all... I mean that video easily shows Hamilton been a nice distance holding a nice pace behind the safety car, then after the apex of the first corner start accelerating for no reason and nearly overtaking the Safety car, then completly slowing down to crawling speeds around the outside, and with Webber on the inside means Webber has to virtually stop on the inside to avoid overtaking Hamilton. Hell its basic Physics, a car on the inside has to travel less distance than a car on the outside = going at alot slower speed to avoid overtaking said car on the outside... Webber has a clear road ahead yes and can see what Hamilton is upto but Vettel does not, he has a face full of spray and visibility is probably nil, also probably saves his tear off's over the safety car period as really you won't need them which won't help visability, especially when all the drivers were told and agreed at the Drivers Briefing to stick at a constant pace! Theres nothing that anyone can say which will make that pace in that video constant!


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2007 09:11PM by Ianwoollam.

From looking at that video, I can definitely lay the blame at Lewis' door. He slows right down and Webber knows he cant overtake him, so slows right down too. Now Vettel is there focusing on Hamilton since he's slowed down dramatically and has taken his eye off Webber a split second which, unfortunately, is enough for both races to be ruined. Imagine yourself in Vettel's situation playing GP4/rFactor/whatever sim you play. If someone slows down ahead of you then you look at them. Instinct teaches you to look at something that suddenly changes out of the ordinary (most advertising works this way). When someone suddenly slows, you look to see where they are going to end up, so you can counteract it....thus taking your focus off the car immediately ahead (which you cant judge the proximity of anyway due to spray) you smash into the back of him.

EDIT: With regards to the penalty Vettel has, totally unfair. Since we only had limited footage at first, we naturally assumed that Vettel had just gone up the back of Webber (and this was confirmed by him apologising so much after the race). However the new evidence from the Fuji crowd shows otherwise. Imho, Hamilton should have this penalty, not Vettel. But the stewards have already made their decision...and to go back on it now wouldn't help their credibility now would it? lol

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Circuit Thermalito

Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2007 09:13PM by Fincent.

Give the wonderboy a 10 spot penalty and then lets see what kind of driver he is. No doubt Ron will arrange it so the Mclaren strategy will hurt Fernando and favor his pet.

I doubt Hamilton can come though the field the way Kimi routinely does....



"There are some pikeys there at Turn 10 putting tarmac down - what do you think of that?" - Martin Brundle

someone sounds bitter

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Bitter that evil Lewis is going to win a championship before Ickle Kimi?

Will you guys just give it a rest with the Hamilton bashing!

It is like you all resent him for having done so well this year. whats that all about!

Leading the field for lap after lap behind the safety car while keeping the car ready for the restart is tricky. Like you and me at a round about it is up to the driver in front to look ahead and for those behind to look after themselves.

The drivers snipping at LH is just an example of sour grapes. An old master in lewis' position would just have been seen as taking control.

Hiss off FIA!

Lewis for the title!

Stevenage's finest!

i hope lewis gets penalised, and then i hope he wins the title anyway, then i can publish my book 'Lewis Hamilton - Against All (FIA) Odds'

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Sorry lads, I'm not a Kimi fanboy. But I was amazed at how he drove through the field last week under horrible conditions, and even more amazed after watching some onboards of him recovering control of the car when it aquaplaned with a simple lightning - quick flick of his wrists.

Maybe it's simply a case of me not rating "Little Lord Fauntleroy" as high as you kids do....



"There are some pikeys there at Turn 10 putting tarmac down - what do you think of that?" - Martin Brundle

if they do punnish him, i really do hope that it is a fine or place drop in qualifing,
not by taking his fuji points off him.

i think that would set a dangerous precident.

the stewards appear not to have recieved any offical complaints after the race, yet now a week later they are investigating this.

if they did exclude him from japan,
what would happen if another fan footage turns up showing Massa doing something wrong in the Spanish grand prix? does he loose his points from that too?

or Alonso in monaco? or Kimi at silverstone?

could you have an army of people trying to dig up stuff to try to get the results of races changed weeks even months after the event?

where would it stop? it would end up a complete mess.

the investigation is being done by the stewards at the Chinese gp(yes, i know they're the same people) and so the any penalty should apply to this race not the last one.

if it doesn't they risk turning F1 into a complete farce.

Hamilton catches the Safety Car by accelerating, not by the SC slowing down. I don't see the brake lights come on at all going up the hill there. He then brakes really sharply so Webber goes to the inside to avoid him and also brakes so as to not overtake Hamilton. Vettel, as by his own admission is concentrating on Hamilton's car going at a crawling pace on the outside and before he knows it he's rear-ended Webber.

Obviously Vettel must take some blame because he wasn't 100% concentrated on where he was going, but it was Hamilton's actions that provided the catalyst for the accident to occur.

He Definantly should lose his Fuji Points. It happened to jacques Villeneuve in 1997 for not slowing down in a yellow flag zone in practice in the dry.

You have here a situation where in dangerous conditions, the driver was caught driving quite dangerously resulting in an accident. He should lose his points and even be given a grid penalty for those kind of tactics he employed. Dont forget it wasnt only during that instance, he also was employing those tactics during the first safety car situation and was quite lucky Alonso was good enough to react.

Also this will even up all the bias that the FIA has been giving this guy a) Getting a tractor to lift him out of the gravel trap at the nurburgring, b) allowing him to retain his championship position with a tainted car.

marwood82 Wrote:
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> if it doesn't they risk turning F1 into a complete
> farce.

No offence... but the FIA turned F1 into a farce looooong before today

I agree he shouldn't be scrapped of his points, other drivers have done alot worse but the FIA don't care about that, fact is knocking 10 points off Hamilton's lead will make a much more interesting championship battle and the FIA are well aware of this... Hell its why the McLaren drivers kept their points and McLaren lost theirs.


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2007 10:50PM by Ianwoollam.

@Marco

Yes Villeneuve lost his points in 1997 because he drove through yellow flags without slowing down, or acknowledging them. This is quite different, in that yellow flags mean that a car is in a dangerous position (not moving or returning to the track), or there could even be marshals on the track.

If Villeneuve had come across a slow car, or a marshal at high speed, i'm sure the outcome would of been a lot more serious, hence the penalty.

He'd already had a suspended ban hanging over him when he did it.

Yes, because they needed a showdown in Jerez.
Renault's last race, nice track, middle of europe...etc...etc...three drivers on poletime(I said poletime not poleposition, if anyone dares to complain) allegedly there was a timing error. A timing error? In hi-tech era??? strange???

count.bazley Wrote:
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> Hamilton catches the Safety Car by accelerating,
> not by the SC slowing down. I don't see the brake
> lights come on at all going up the hill there.

brake lights on which car? i hope you don't mean on Hamilton's car, as F1 cars don't have brake lights, only the rain light which was on and constantly flashed on every car racing that day because of the poor conditions.

Marwood82 wrote:
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i think that would set a dangerous precident.

the stewards appear not to have recieved any offical complaints after the race, yet now a week later they are investigating this.

if they did exclude him from japan,
what would happen if another fan footage turns up showing Massa doing something wrong in the Spanish grand prix? does he loose his points from that too?

or Alonso in monaco? or Kimi at silverstone?

could you have an army of people trying to dig up stuff to try to get the results of races changed weeks even months after the event?

where would it stop? it would end up a complete mess.

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nothing would happen because no cars crashed or retired in those races due to something unseen by the cameras on the day of the race.

it was only because they didn't have this Hamilton/Vettel/Webber footage from the official feed on the day that nothing happened to Lewis during the race and it came down to fan-footage discovered days later.

as i've said before, i don't think he should get any points penalty, but definitely a grid drop for China or at least an official reprimand saying he has to be careful in the coming races or else he will get a more severe punishment (race bans etc.). his weaving at starts earlier this season have been overlooked but something will have to be said soon or else he'll continue and will eventually cause a crash at the start of a race.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

He Definantly should lose his Fuji Points. It happened to jacques Villeneuve in 1997 for not slowing down in a yellow flag zone in practice in the dry.

This situation is not relevent to Lewis's situation.

First of all, the rules have changed since 1997 and the FIA will not change the Fuji results for driving they felt was dangerous, but will hand out a penalty for the next race. This has been the way it is done for a year or so now.

Secondly, Villeneuve was given a penalty for not slowing down under a yellow flag zone because he was already under a suspended ban. This was his second offence and the FIA punished accordingly. However his first offence is somewhat interesting, but i'll come onto that in a moment.

Lastly, Lewis committed his crime under safety car whilst Villeneuve's was in normal practice conditions. The crimes were also completely different, with Lewis driving dangerously, and Villeneuve not lifting for a yellow flag zone.

Villeneuve's firs offence in 1997, which got him on probation in the first place, was following the safety car too closely at Silverstone. Yet the footage of this incident shows him to be considerably further from the rear of the safety car than Lewis was, meaning that Lewis should have been punished for following the safety car too closely as well as the stop-starting which caused the accident.

It is silly to suggest that no blame lies with Vettel. But it is equally silly to suggest that Lewis was not the cause of the accident.

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No punishment and tighter rules on what you can do under the safety car. That should be the outcome of this.



RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
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We already have regulations defining what can be done under the safety car, and regulations addressing this situation too. Since the YouTube video shows the accident in its entirety, shouldn't it be more appropriate to simply apply the current regulations to the accident, now that it is possible?

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"if it doesn't they risk turning F1 into a complete farce."

like we aren't in a farce this year already.


speed freak