F1 safety to improve next season

And I distinctly remember someone voting against such a system by simply using the word "Heidfeld"...lol

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Circuit Thermalito

Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2007 10:17PM by Fincent.

Only place I can see it working is around the helmet area. They'd be mad to raise the cockpit sides all down the open area, cause the drivers then can't see outside the cars, and have more difficulty seeing things properly with them chocolate fireguards (sorry, mirrors).

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sasjag Wrote:
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> senninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What a load of fuss over nothing! All they are
> > likely to do is raise the sides so that they
> are
> > closer to the top of the helmet than they
> > currently are. It's hardly going to take much
> away
> > from the racing...
>
>
> but what happens when someone goes underneath
> another car from behind, and the wheels hits teh
> helmet face on?

If the cockpit sides are the more or less the same height at the top of the driver's helmet, it will probably act like a wedge and skim off the top of the helmet. I don't know how it will affect the HANS device though.

I'd add a diagram explaining my theory, but i should be working

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In Australia, it wasn't Coulthard's wheel that they should have been worrying about, it was that "spike" protruding from under the side-pod (visible easily from top-down view) that would have done the damage.

I don't think they really need to further improve safety.*

Kubica had that destruction derby crash at Montreal with his feet sticking out the chassis and he still didn't break anything.

It's motor racing, considering the speeds they get up to and how flimsy the cars ised to be, I think it's bloody safe enough..

* Ed - Well, those spikes can go. Obviously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 12:27PM by loque.

I think that the best solution is lower the drivers´ position.

They are already more or less touching the floor.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

loque Wrote:
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> Kubica had that destruction derby crash at
> Montreal with his feet sticking out the chassis
> and he still didn't break anything.

I think the fact that Kubica's feet were sticking out of the front of the cockpit is evidence enough that the cars own safety could be improved.

Yeah, if he was hit by another car for instance his feet and ankles could have been pulverized. He was lucky but it shows that F1 safety is far from perfect.
Modern F1 tubs are too skinny at the front imo.

> loque Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Kubica had that destruction derby crash at
> > Montreal with his feet sticking out the chassis
> > and he still didn't break anything.

If that happens in 1982, for example, Kubica is died today. Remember Gilles Villeneuve...

A more representative crash in 1982 would have been Riccardo Paletti's, which was also fatal.

well, the nature of Ricardo Palleti crash was wery specific, and that can repeat anytime, no matter of safety improvements.

The fact is that Ferrari of Didier Pironi stood still and therefore making very dangerous obstacle. Even more dangerous than the wall itself. Why? because when the car is beeing hit from behind it tends (and especially in those days, when cars had short noses)) to climb up the nose of the car that hit him from behind, immediate consequence is that the gearbox of the standing car will hit the driver's head in the other car.

Simmilar accident occured at Imola '94 when Benetton-Ford driven by J.J. Lehto stalled, and was hit from behind by Pedro Lamy, only difference was that Lotus hit Benetton under angle and therefore slid sideways and not underneath the Benetton, so It was a lucky circumstance, (although it just might be the thing that influenced the things that were about to happen, because the accident brought out safety car, so if there was a clear race with no pace car maybie, and just maybie Senna's suspension or steering or whatever broke would broke maybie ten meters before or ten meters after and the angle of impact would be slightly different and maybie Ayrton would survive, maybie the parts of his suspension would just fly by his helmet instead of piercing it. but back to topic), so Pedro Lamy slid sideways, but if the impact had been more direct Lotus would dive beneath Benetton therefore hitting Lamy in the head.

So it is really a thing that cannot be avoided if you want to have an open cockpit car, If formula 1 would adopt fully enclosed cockpit with a narrow window through which driver would look , then it can be avoided.

There was actually a pre WW2 race car I think it was Auto Union or Mercedes that looked like that, but I'm not sure, I'll go now and I will try to find some pictures of it, I remember I saw a drawing rather than a picture of that car. It was running on a high banked curve, think it was old Avus but I'm not sure. Car looked a bit like batmobile TBH.

I will try to find it and I'll paste it here, or post a link or something.

[www.gaffersports.com]


well I was wrong, dammit. It had enclose wheels, but open cockpit. Incredible how your own memory can sometimes trick you!

You're also wrong regarding Paletti. He didn't suffer head injuries from the gear box at all because he never went under Pironi's car. He smashed into the back of Pironi but his car just crumpled. He succumbed to the massive internal injuries.

Yes, sadly the steering column punctured his chest iirc.

"There was actually a pre WW2 race car I think it was Auto Union or Mercedes that looked like that, It was running on a high banked curve, think it was old Avus but I'm not sure. Car looked a bit like batmobile TBH. "

Love this picture:



There was an enclosed cockpit version of the Auto Union streamliner which was used to make record speed attempts but i can't find a picture of it.

I said the Gilles accident because it was similar to the Kubica´s. Other is the Didier Pironi´s accident in 1982 too, but in Hockenheim. In that 3 accidents, all the cars flown after a colission.

If Gilles has his accident today, he´s alive... Pironi had also seriously injuries. He was lucky. He died but not in a car. Robert only had a not seriously injure in his right foot.



Last thing: in 1955, in Le Mans, Pierre Levegh had a terrible accident (I think you know what i´m talking about)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2007 08:31PM by Frantic.

Frantic Wrote:
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> I said the Gilles accident because it was similar
> to the Kubica´s. Other is the Didier Pironi´s
> accident in 1982 too, but in Hockenheim. In that 3
> accidents, all the cars flown after a colission.

The only similarity between Villeneuve's accident and Kubica's was that both got some air. Kubica only left the ground enough to effect steering. Gilles was never anywhere near it.

Both Didier and Gilles got so airborne due to ground effects that it caused their cars to sommersault several times and break apart. Robert got slightly airborne and hit a wall very hard, somewhat different imo.

Frantic Wrote:
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> I said the Gilles accident because it was similar
> to the Kubica´s. Other is the Didier Pironi´s
> accident in 1982 too, but in Hockenheim. In that 3
> accidents, all the cars flown after a colission.
>
> If Gilles has his accident today, he´s alive...
> Pironi had also seriously injuries. He was lucky.
> He died but not in a car. Robert only had a not
> seriously injure in her right foot.

i'm sure he'd be upset at being called female

[/pedantic]

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brnco Wrote:
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> Simmilar accident occured at Imola '94 when
> Benetton-Ford driven by J.J. Lehto stalled, and
> was hit from behind by Pedro Lamy, only difference
> was that Lotus hit Benetton under angle and
> therefore slid sideways and not underneath the
> Benetton, so It was a lucky circumstance,


lucky for who? several spectators were hurt IIRC by the wheels flying off

Sim

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And Hans Hermmann had an accident in 1960 driving a Porsche. I don´t remember if he flown out the car.