FIA says has new evidence in spy case

Just finally read the whole thing in autosport.

Mclaren should just accept it and carry on now.

It looks like more people knew about the plans even though Ron might not have.

I still dont see how they can let the current car race if they think it has parts designed by ferrari, that must be down to tv viewers.

But pedro and alonso have acted very wrong here and should have known better or spoke up at the start.

"a penalty consisting of exclusion from and withdrawal of all points awarded to McLaren in all rounds of the 2007 Constructors' Championship. For the avoidance of doubt, McLaren will be permitted to race in the remaining rounds of the 2007 Championship but will not be permitted to score points in the Constructors Championship or attend the podium in the event of a top three finish in any of the remaining races in the 2007 season. Points scored by other competitors in the Championship to date will not be affected further to the withdrawal of McLaren's points;"

Does this mean none of the McLaren drivers will be allowed to stand in the podium should they score a top three finish???

McLaren must be happy about this penalty, they deserved exclusion from the championship. Alonso and De la Rosa were very smart to collaborate. They knew about it as well. However, it seems hard to believe that Hamilton had no clue about all this.

I'm sure that Lewis knew of what was happening even if he was not directly involved.

I'm finding it hard to take that Alonso was so involved with this, yet ( in my opinion ) will end up winning the drivers championship. A hollow WCC & WDC also, not the best end to the season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 05:07PM by Montazuma06.

Well, I think FA is not very happy in the team as he showed in Monza with Ron. McLaren, after the FIA penalty, in order to keep good image, need at least to win the WDC and keep the number 1 for the next season. So if Alonso is thinking in going to another team, he should not say anything at the momment cause then McLaren could easily destroy his chances of getting the WDC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 05:28PM by requenov.

Wow Alonso was lucky he was offered immunity, same with de la Rosa. Would be interesting to find out how much Lewis knew, so far I've only seen British reports which will likely play down his involvement. Shame to ruin what until now had been a good championship

The ultimate irony

Our spies in the FIA World Council meeting have revealed that there are going to be some surprises when the details come to light next week. We understand that the most extraordinary revelation will be in relation to the identity of the man who tipped off the FIA that there was additional evidence against McLaren: it was none other than Ron Dennis.

It appears that this strange turn of affairs came about because Dennis and Fernando Alonso argued about the details of the Spaniard's contract. Alonso seems to have mentioned that he was in possession of information that might be of interest to the FIA. In order to deprive Alonso of this rather unsavoury negotiating tool and negate the possibility of anyone else using it against McLaren and because it was the right thing to do Dennis reported the information to the FIA in the hope that his display of good faith would underline the fact that the team has been honest throughout the investigation.

It is anticipated that this will be confirmed when the transcripts of the case come to light next week.

If this is indeed the case, Fernando Alonso's image as a simple, nice fellow is going to take quite a hit.

Based on the FIA’s statement I don’t think Mclaren can have many complaints.

unfortunately exactly who knew what and when is something that i doubt we'll ever know.

It would have been better if this had been a public hearing, then at least all the evidence would be out there for everyone to see and so would have put a stop to a lot of the continuing speculation.


with regards Lewis not knowing much about it, its possible i suppose.
remember, Mclaren is a big organisation and the test and race teams are usually separate entities. (+ if you had this kind of info, I’d imagine you want as few people as possible to know about it)

Maybe the test team had the info and Pedro passed it on to Alonso?
(if this happened any time after the USA gp I doubt Alonso would have been too keen to tell Lewis anything that might help him )

Unlikely maybe, i'm sure he must have known something, but a possible explanation ?

transcripts of both hearings will be published next week

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Maybe LH was kept out of the loop by FA, PdlR and MC in case he went crying to teacher, sorry, telling Ron about it?

If one looks at the season in perspective, it is actually quite remarkable how easily McLaren adapted to Bridgestone tyres and how quickly they were able to outperform Ferrari despite the fact that they had 2 completely new drivers.
No other team was capable of such resurgence in such a short period of time. It was just too damn good to be true

Again this is one huge joke. We now know Alonso and De La Rosa were involved but yet the FIA give them immunity and punish Mclaren by £50m. We know of four people involved Coughlan, Stepney, Alonso and De La Rosa yet the FIA haven't punished any of them. It now seems some sort of punishment for MC is correct although £50m plus points seems excessive, one or the other would have been better. Personally i would sack De la Rosa and put Alonso on testing duty until contract expires or release from contract for a huge fee to reduce fine with. Button as replacement would make a good British team.




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McLaren has one Bridgestone-employee who worked with Ferrari until the end of the last season ,he surely has been more than helpfull to help McLaren adapt better to the new tyres.

Well, I think the fine was placed for the lack of conviction in removing McLaren, Drivers and all from the championship this year. The evidence is quite conclusive, Mclaren, Alonso and Hamilton should have not been allowed to race for the remainder of the season. Ferrari I believe would do well to appeal this decision even further.

The fine in the world of formula one, and especially with a team like McLaren doesnt amount to much of a punishment. It actually has a bigger bark then bite and is simply fluff to make it look like McLaren got punished.

I guarentee if Ferrari Appeal this decision the appeal will take place after this season where the championship will be overturned in favor of whoever. They wont do it now in order to preserve this seasons image. Kind of like Schumacher 1997 (even though he made his transgression in the final race.)

And for those who still believe McLaren are innocent, wake up. Apologies should be given out by a number of you in regards to many of the remarks that were uttered over the last number of months.

it's lighter than you could've got.

Somehow, I feel that this judgement "ended up in pizza".

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Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять

I disagree that the team has directly used Ferrari parts and should therefore be fully excluded. From reading the FIAs evidence, the main issue is that they had knowledge of what Ferrari were doing car and could therefore attempt to counter it. Not copy their car.

Even if they copied, they could not be faster than Ferrari. They could only be equal, unless they improve on the Ferrari. However considering what Ferrari is capable of, anything McLaren could do to improve the Ferrari, Ferrari would have done already. I am referring to a direct copy, but taking odd parts wouldn't work in such a short timespan.

Not to mention there wouldn't even be this decision had the FIA not offered immunity to the drivers.

Well done TripleM you got it right it was Ron who told the FIA.

But well done Ron for doing the right thing even though it cost u a lot.

So at the point of the Hungry GP Ron must have been upset with Alonso already and makes you wonder if he said anything to him before quali and that is why alonso done what he done?

I really dont see how they can leave him in the car, what he and pedro done was just as bad as Stepney and Mike. Mike and Stepney have also been prooved to be liars. I makes me anoyed that they are letting alonso drive for them, maybe tomrrow he will not be as the story did not come out until this afternoon. The problem might be due to the money alonso brings to the team. And one thing at least we know how alonso bought .6 of a second to mclaren lol. People wanted mclaren banned for cheating, mclaren did not cheat but alonso and pedro used the info.

Just read this on f1-live its strange as it says Pedro had no emails so maybe alonso saved them all?


Following the espionage scandal verdict, Fernando Alonso is almost certain to leave the McLaren team to join Renault next year, according to a newspaper.

The Berlin-based daily newspaper Die Welt reiterated on Friday that the Spaniard's current contract includes an exit clause that will have been triggered due to McLaren's exclusion from the constructors' championship.

"A return to Renault for Alonso is considered very probable," the newspaper contended.

The reigning World Champion's relationship with team boss Ron Dennis was already strained, and Alonso is believed to have been calculatingly excluded from McLaren's Paris delegation on Thursday despite his leading role in the evidence that incriminated the team.


Indeed, the FIA's 15-page evidence dossier released at Spa-Francorchamps on Friday acknowledged that Lewis Hamilton - who, like Pedro de la Rosa, attended the hearing - had "no information" about the spy saga, while Alonso provided by email information that the World Motor Sport Council found "highly relevant."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 08:09PM by marcl.

and here in finland it says that if Alonso goes back to Renault he has told Flavio to keep fisico because Heikki would be a challenge for Fernando...so they would rent Heikki to another team like for example Williams or Toyota.however Fernando and Heikki are very good friends so they would get along very well.

If thats true that says it all, bet mclaren wish they never signed him.

The relationship with mclaren and alonso was never there and I think its because deep down alosno never wanted to go there he just did it for money and that he thought renault would be out of f1. Never know they still could be if mclaren take it further.

I have heard though alonso will be going there by the next gp but dont know if thats true. There is talk he might not be in the car tomorrow, pedro might be stepping in. We shall see, there are alot of stories around at the mo.

If lewis does win the championship atleast he can say he done it fairly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 08:32PM by marcl.

I believe that the penalty is fair. This sort of thing always goes on between teams though, its just that McLaren happened to get caught. It will act as a good detterent in the future. Although I would like to know where all of this money is going to, just seems like a ploy to get the FIA's bank balance looking a bit better to me.

However, it also seems to me that McLaren gained no advantage whatsoever with the Ferrari data. The time span was too short, and the MP4-22 was quick straight out of the box in the winter and I don't believe that any Ferrari data could help them go quicker as the cars are too different. It was the actions of a few that have almost brought down a racing team with an always good reputation to its knees. Also, if Jean Todt had kept his own house in order, none of this would have happened in the first place and I bet Ferrari aren't squeaky clean when it comes to spying (Tapping into McLarens radio transmissions in 1999 for example).

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