FIA says has new evidence in spy case

Toyota did far worse in 2004 and got nothing

My thoughts too, but I do not know the full details behind the tf incident.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

It's the same in any sport/business though. Nobody cares in tour de france or athletics if some crap athlete is banned for taking drugs, but if it's a big name then the media and other competitors are all over it.

Quote

McLaren were not found guilty of cheating, only having possession of the documents, and lying about them. Funnily enough, the team were cleared of all cheating allegations, and this was backed by the FIAs decision to allow the drivers to keep there points, since they were won in a legal car.

Aren't we going to have to wait for that to be clarified today? As it was made clear the drivers would escape punishment in exchange for giving information, it hardly backs it up.

And won't the money that is fined just be used by the FIA in all the other areas they are involved in, road safety and research etc?


"No it's not a skirt"

chet:

from wiki:

"Industrial espionage

2004 also saw Toyota being accused of industrial espionage in the case of stolen data files from Ferrari. This following a season where many Formula 1 fans commented on similarities of the Toyota TF104 to the Ferrari F2003-GA. The district attorney of Cologne, where Toyota F1 is based, led the investigation saying "It’s an immense amount of material. We’d need over 10 thousand pages to print everything." Toyota refused to send the data back to Italy because they did not want Ferrari to take advantage of their own data, which had been mixed in with Ferrari's"

other links:

[www.f1network.net]

[www.speedtv.com]

[news.bbc.co.uk]

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

And they got away with that.

Isn't that similar to how Stewart et al tried to present this case?

Employee(s) leaving the team and taken (outdated) software/information with them.

Something that happens and not a bid deal etc.

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Reading the verdict, it's a major crock how McLaren are allowed to compete.

"4.3 In its report “Allegato 18”, the Italian Police demonstrated that in the period 21 March to 3 July 2007, Coughlan received 23 calls from Stepney’s personal mobile phone and made four calls to that phone. In the same period, Coughlan received 124 SMS messages from Stepney and sent 66 SMS messages to Stepney.
4.4 In its report “Allegato 9” the Italian Police have identified logs which show 23 emails passed between Coughlan and Stepney between 1 March and 14 April 2007.
4.5 In its report “Allegato 10” the Italian police have identified a further 98 SMS messages and a further eight telephone calls (on different phones) between Coughlan and Stepney between 11 March and 14 April 2007.
4.6 In total, at least 288 SMS messages and 35 telephone calls appear to have passed between Coughlan and Stepney between 11 March 2007 and 3 July 2007.
4.7 The number of contacts increased considerably during private tests carried out by Ferrari in Malaysia at the end of March 2007 and in the run up to and during the days of the Grands Prix in Australia on 18 March 2007, Malaysia on 8 April 2007, Bahrain on 15 April 2007 and Spain on 13 May 2007."

full text below

[www.f1fanatic.co.uk]

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I think McLaren knew so much that maybe even drivers points should have been penalised somehow ...after that I have read this full statement ,I think McLaren should be banned from this season,I think that would have been right.they knew so much.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 03:53PM by vesuvius.

lmao
who else laughed when reading that :P

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lmao
> who else laughed when reading that :P


I see nothing funny in this verdict at all...it clearly shows that McLaren should be penalised even more then they were.

I can see how McLaren got off so lightly there - the bit TripleM quotes above is of little relevance - section 3 is the killer, as it demonstrates that people outside of Coughlan and Stepney were involved. However, it doesn't show any knowledge on behalf of anyone else other than Alonso and de la Rosa - so it would have been deemed unfair to punish McLaren when it cannot be shown that the management or race team did anything wrong. Maybe Alonso and de la Rosa could have been given bans, but they'd already been given immunity, so they were fine. So, IMHO, reading the verdict the punishment seems about right - there is no proof that McLaren used the info in a way that Dennis or any senior management knew about - and of the 4 people who can be shown to have been involved, 2 are going to be the subject of legal action in Italy and would be difficult for the FIA to punish anyway, and two had been given immunity. Gotta wonder about Lewis' role in all this however

The quoted bit is a follow up on my previous posts about the Postal Police having evidence of further contacts between Stepney and Coughlan.

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I know, I was just pointing out that as far as the punishment is concerned, that section is irrelevant - the contact between NS and MC had never been in doubt - it was whether it had gone further.

Just read on the BBC website that the FIA has given details of some of the emails between De La Rosa and Alonso

"All the information from Ferrari is very reliable," De la Rosa wrote to Alonso on 25 March in an exchange about the Ferrari's weight distribution.

"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now.

"He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."
([news.bbc.co.uk])

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Ric Scott




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 04:12PM by Enjoi.

To those that keep saying Maclaren got off lightly... the 100 million dollar fine is the largest fine EVER, not only in F1, or motorsports, but in the entirety of sporting history.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 04:20PM by Morbid.

But then again, they won't actually pay that. It's the 100 million minus the loss of the prize money. So if they have to pay some 50 million, it won't be that much, especially for a Formula one team like McLaren.

Nick, they'll still effectively be paying $100M, because they'll have budgeted for next year based on getting at least 2nd in the constructor's, so it'll be as bad as having to pay the money out and keeping the prize money - it just makes it easier for the FIA to take the money if it's a smaller amount with them witholding other money.

And Morbid, the fine is huge, yes, but compared to the two-year ban they could have been facing, it is light. It's like being sentenced to 35 years in prison rather than life - yes, it's a long stretch, but it's lighter than you could've got

just read it as well.

Mclaren have been bought down by pedro, alonso and mike.

Mclaren sacked mike they must do the same to the others sorry to say.

It though should be them 3 people done and not the whole team.

they don't really have a leg to stand on. the only question is the fine i think. ok, the points withdrawl is fair but there is no reason for the fine IMO

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Have they sacked Coughlan?

I admit to not following the case very closely during August and could have missed it but AFAIK Coughlan is only suspended.

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Yeah but you're all forgetting 'no industrial espionage' took place and no advantage was gained. And mere possesion of the Data by an individual member of the team amounts to nothing.

LOLOLOL!!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 04:40PM by Razorsedge.