KIMI driving style

Slash Wrote:
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> To be honest i don't know, but you don't either
> nor anyone of us, only somebody who's worked with
> the guy will know the difference, Martin Withmarsh
> maybe, with all electronicals aids and everything,
> there's got to be a rational explanaiton to why
> some drivers suffer more failures than others, and
> good luck and bad luck doesn't sound rational at
> all, so the way a driver uses the car compared to
> his teammate might be the one, let's wait for this
> year to end, if he has more failures than Massa...
> like i said, on the last 6 races ferrari's had
> reliable problems on 4, so i doubt Kimi's failure
> in barcelona is giving us a clear picture... by
> the end of the year we'll get a better one

I might not know but I have a fair idea, again it wasn't me that was making the accusations... it was you. I'm asking you to back up your statements like I have.

Modern day F1 cars see the driver have control over what? The throttle, gear paddles and brake pedal for the majority of the race.

Can a driver break the car by braking? Maybe if they were to brake hard on the kerbs over a race but they don't do that as it would unsettle the car.

The throttle pedal, now you could damage drivetrain with that, but again a modern day F1 car has TC and throttle curves so the throttle input from the drivers foot is always manipulated and never linear.

Gearbox, well the driver has very little control over that as well. The car will refuse to go into a gear if the RPM is wildly wrong.

I can't see anything that a driver can be hard on. The only thing I can see (without crashing the car) a driver can do to damage a car is excessive kerb riding and they all whack them pretty hard. Personally I couldn't care less what Martin Withmarsh says, as far as I'm concerned he is just having a dig at Kimi for leaving them. Why were they so desperate to keep the `car breaker`?


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2007 08:57PM by keiran.

If an F1 car can handle Imola for 60odd laps im sure its able to take on Kimi

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

@keiran

Remember that modern F1cars doesnt also need much to break. Made to run on limits anyway...

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

IWE Wrote:
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> @keiran
>
> Remember that modern F1cars doesnt also need much
> to break. Made to run on limits anyway...

I know that but my point is what exactly can a driver do to break the car? Although you do make F1 cars seem very fragile when they can take quite a whack (a harder impact than a kerb) and get away with it. Everything is electronically controled, it's basically a piece of software with good error messaging (i.e not letting the car do things that will damage parts).

The two parts the driver has full control over is the steering wheel and the brake pedal. As I've said damaging the car on the brake pedal is very unlikely unless you flat spot a tyre but then they wouldn't run it long enough to cause what happened to Kimi in 05. I've said hitting kerbs hard is the only thing I can see which would damage the car. Considering it wasn't a drive train failure on Raikkonen's car we're safe to say that he never caused the damage...


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
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Guimengo Wrote:
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> James Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > no problems with Kimi's driving style - he's a
> > very smooth driver unlike Massa who thrashes
> the
> > car around. He just had one instance of car
> > failure - it wont happen very often this year
>
>
> This isn't 2004-2005 anymore, have you noticed how
> smooth Massa is now?

Oh compared to what he was like when he first started he is much smoother. However compared to other drivers, he would have to be one of the more rougher drivers on the accelerator and steering. Wait for a wet race if we have one this year - that'll sort him out!

In 2001 Montoya had so more reliable problems than Ralf, and Patrick Head came to his defense to say that with the electronics aids it was impossible to brake down a car because of driving style, but funny enough i remember correctly in Magny Cours Eddie Irvine was driving like a mad man, overtaking people and really pushing the limits of that thing, until the car broke down, the race was broadcasted with a special guest, Enrique Scalabroni, the narrator said "oh what a shame he was coming really fast" or something, but i remember exactly that Escalabroni said "yes, but that car's really been punished so i saw it coming" i remeber that very clear because it was a contradiction to what Patrick Head said.. in my opinion i do think a driver can brake a car because of driving style, downgearing (if the word exists) very fast, or some other way, regardless of how much electronics it has, the majority of the car is still mechanical

Oh i'm sorry, for those who don't know who Scalabroni is, here is a link to see his work in F-1 [www.grandprix.com]

Slash Wrote:
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> downgearing (if the word
> exists) very fast, or some other way, regardless
> of how much electronics it has, the majority of
> the car is still mechanical

As I've pointed out above the electronics will not allow the car to change gear unless it's in a sane RPM range. Not remember Button in Canada (can't remember the year) having a bit of a panic on the formation lap when his car delayed in shifting?

Yes the car is mechanical but as I'm trying to say the driver only has control of very few parts. Throttle input is always manipulated by the electronics, brake pedal isn't going to damage the car and steering the car isn't going to damage it either. The drivers who are at the front will all carry nearly identical Gs through the corners otherwise they'd not be at the front so it's not like one is driving the car too fast...

The electronics protect the car from a lot of the abuse a driver can give it. The only way I can think that it's possible for the driver to damage the car is hitting the kerbs hard but tbh they all hit them fairly hard.

There is no way Kimi caused engine failures... As I've said Coulthard suffered a lot of engine failures and various other mechanical problems at McLaren and he is a smooth driver...


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2007 09:26PM by keiran.

the car is controlled by the ECU, and when a driver uses the throttle and gearbox, all his inputs go throught the ECU and it will decide whether or not to agree to the request of the driver. as keiran has said many times, there is no way the gearbox will allow a driver to down-shift with the wrong RPM, or "too fast", it will allow it to happen at the speed and the RPM it feels are ok to not damage the gearbox (within the limits the engineers have set inside the ECU).

yes the car is mostly mechanical, but the computer controls most of the parts that the driver can use/adjust. it simply will not let the driver use the parts in the "wrong" way.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Tbh these days all a driver has to do is keep it on the black stuff and the car stays in one piece.

Twenty years a driver had to look after the tyres, make sure the engine temperature wasn't high, keep an eye on the fuel gauge, make sure not to miss a gear, which at some GPs like Monaco was a nightmare, try not to over rev the engine, not use the brakes too much or the pedal would go soft and so on.

you have to say they have it so much easier now

good or bad though?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

They can focus on driving the car

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tripleM Wrote:
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> They can focus on driving the car

Exactly my thoughts.

When it comes down to it it's all relative. Chances are F1 drivers today will be pushing the limits a lot harder than the days where the drivers had more to do/get wrong.

The skill of pushing to the limit is still there and that in essence is what motorsport is all about. Even TC doesn't take away that much of the driving skill. Teams and drivers don't want to be using much TC as it will slow them down. They want the throttle progression to be as close to linear as possible without the rears spinning but if TC starts kicking in, the spark starts getting cut and you start losing momentum. What it really helps prevent is the driver totally losing the rear.


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
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www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

One thing that drivers have now to make pushing to the limit easier is power steering.
Also all the circuits these days have low kerbs and often decent run off areas so making a mistake isn't as costly as it once was.