lmao, massa won't know what's hit him!

Err... Please call him Raikkonen.. and not Kimi.. You call Massa , Massa and not Felipe !!

That really annoying to the Raikkonen fans

To the point.. Rakkonen is faster than Massa.. But I think Massa is the more competitive one..

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Magic Senna

i call him Kimi cos it's quicker to type than Raikkonen. same with Massa, it's shorter than Felipe.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

And? ....... so Massa is not faster than Raikkonen and he was not faster than Shummi.
What's that? If he can not beat Shumi he can't be faster than Kimi .... please he's been faster than Raikkonen from the get go! The reason why Raikkonen is in the lead from Massa has nothing to do with his prowess as a driver .... it's called racing. Some you win some you lose and he that wins the most is the winner but not neccessarily the best ....... or indeed the fastest.

Everything here is speculation or matter of opinion .... unless someone has a Crystal ball. And for that reason everyone is entitled to an opinion. And it is my opinion that Massa is indeed faster than Raikkonen. All through winter testing and for the best part of this new season he has proven that. And here is a wake up call, Raikkenon is not the 'New Shumi' he's not nearly consistent enough or technical enough to be that. Pound for pound Alonso is the most complete race car driver on that grid. And if we are looking at points that count well, Ms has the most then Alonso, ...... oh and Lewis has not not got that many so I suppose he's crap??
Well we all know that's not true, don't we?

Let me make it simple, when we talk about the best driver we are talking accomplishments EX: Race wins, Champion ships, Records.

When we talk of the Fastest driver we are talking about consistant speed. Ex:
Practice, Qualifying, Race lap records. It has nothing to do with points .... and that is the end of the story .............



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2007 11:25PM by Isaint.

if you say so

Isaint schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me make it simple, when we talk about the best
> driver we are talking accomplishments EX: Race
> wins, Champion ships, Records.
>
> When we talk of the Fastest driver we are talking
> about consistent speed. Ex:
> Practice, Qualifying, Race lap records. It has
> nothing to do with points .... and that is the end
> of the story .............


No.

Indeed it has nothing to do with points. But neither does it have anything to do with the fastest lap, pole etc.

Some drivers have considerably worse material than the guy on pole, but relatively speaking they could be faster in that bad car than the guy on pole in the good car, only you can't compare them because they have worse cars than the guys on pole.

Alonso is one of the fastest driver's of this moment, and everybody knew that already when he drove for Minardi, just by seeing what he was doing with that piece of crap, but he was nowhere near the top ten.

As they always use to say: even schumacher wouldn't win in a minardi. And we can all admit he was one of the fastest drivers ever.

________________________________________

Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...

THE SIG


Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.

Well, .... I should have said ... all things being equal, after all we are talking about the top drivers here, arn't we? Yes? .... well, none of them are driving Minardi's.
As I said Practice, Qualy, Hot lap ......
If we are talking about how a driver handles a 'bath-tub' that reverts back to how good the driver is ... not how fast. Simply because it does not matter who you are, you are not going to drive a 'Minardi' very fast but you may drive it well ..... wich makes you potentially a very good driver not a fast one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2007 10:17PM by Isaint.

Raikkonen still has a far larger number of Poles/Fastest Laps than Massa has. You don't need a crystal ball to see that Kimi is faster than Massa. People are just going on and on about Massa because of winter testing, which means nothing in the end anyway...you don't win races in tests, you win them on tracks, and Massa is still a very incosistent driver that can sometimes have a good weekend like he had at Sakhir. He is yet to show the racecraft that Alonso and Raikkonen have. When he does that and actually beats Raikkonen on equal grounds, I might reconsider but until then, no deal.

true, Massa has yet to actually fight for a win, he's won his 3 races so far by being at the front and leading all the way. Alonso and Kimi have shown us that they can fight and race others, but i'm sure it will happen for Massa too in time.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Other than a bunch of excuses, what was so unequal about Bahrain?

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kimi was heavier, and was held up badly by alonso.

all things being equal, i.e not being held up, he would have easily been able to stay with massa and hamilton in the first stint, and with ging longer, may have overtaken both in the pits.

in the second and third stint, kimi figured that he wasn't able to pass lewis, so backed off and saved engine.

but it still would have been close between them if kimi wasn't held up.
hopefully in barca we can see how they compare.

Then its up to kimi not to be held up.

He has taken car to long to get used to the car and tyres, I thought he was better than this. He had a whole winter of testing he should have been up to speed by the 1st race.

Ok last years mclaren was not all that but was kimi giving 100% i dont think so now he seems to switch off when he can not win.

I think massa will beat him not beacuse he is faster or better than kimi but due to the fact kimi can not be bothered. He needs to go back 2 years and find his raw pace again. Maybe when he starts winning he will start the fire again.

I used to be a fan of kimi but after last year and this year I think he is going to be the George Best of F1, a could have man.

Massa has to be the most overrated driver in F1. His wins have all come about from his superior team-mates having difficulties with their cars. He only came good in the last few races of 2006.

- In Turkey 06 he finished ahead of Alonso who was more concerned with keeping Schumacher behind him for the championship points rather than putting pressure on Massa for the lead.
- In Brazil 06 Schuey would have killed him had he not lost his front wing as the Ferrari’s were the fastest cars all weekend by far. Alonso was more concearned about getting the car home safely and not pushing.
- In Bahrain he should have killed Hamilton as the McLaren’s struggled for race pace (as did Raikkonen).

His technique is awful, he is shocking in the wet weather (ala Hungary & China last year) and his rough driving style means that he will struggle when traction control is removed. Yes he will have it over Raikkonen early in the season but once Kimi gets used to that Ferrari, he’ll kill him later on in the year!

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then its up to kimi not to be held up.
>
> He has taken car to long to get used to the car
> and tyres, I thought he was better than this. He
> had a whole winter of testing he should have been
> up to speed by the 1st race.
>
> Ok last years mclaren was not all that but was
> kimi giving 100% i dont think so now he seems to
> switch off when he can not win.
>
> I think massa will beat him not beacuse he is
> faster or better than kimi but due to the fact
> kimi can not be bothered. He needs to go back 2
> years and find his raw pace again. Maybe when he
> starts winning he will start the fire again.
>
> I used to be a fan of kimi but after last year and
> this year I think he is going to be the George
> Best of F1, a could have man.

What about Alonso then? He was beaten by rookie in first (I still think McLaren held Lewis back) and third race. Thats much poorer than Kimi did so far compared to Massa.

oh dear God!, there's gonna be a murder in F1

imo Massa is the fastest teammate Raikkonen ever had, Heidfeld was on his first year but after him it was Coulthard and Montoya, Coulthard was never good in qualy, but he alwasy finished races very close to Kimi, and Montoya lost his speed when he left Williams/His son was born
When he entered F-1 he was up to speed instantly, he matched Hedfeld, and in Mclaren he beat Coulthard instantly when he joined, and neither of those where the best cars on the grid, but now, he joins the best car on the grid, allegedly feels better at ferrari than when he was at mclaren, but, is having issues with the car, mmm, the best car on the grid... for me the only issue he's having is called Felipe Massa, he was gonna get beaten in Malaysia and he got beaten in Bahrein, and at Oz he was Handicaped by Massa's gearbox problem

I don't care if Massa gets beaten by Kimi by the end of the year, but this is what i wanted, and same for Alonso, teammates that make their lives more difficult

Raikkonen is quick. Massa is quick. They're both proven race winners. Who gives a flying f**k who's faster!? The guy who has more points at the end of the season will have beaten his team-mate, end of discussion. What the hell is so important about bickering over who is the faster driver...?

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K*bots UK, specialist providers of 'fun science' Curriculum Enhancement days for Primary and Secondary schools in Britain.
Please find us on [en.wikipedia.org] for more information.

Good point, anyway we've had just three races and all we can do is speculate. The only thing you can go on is past results and with that Kimi and Fernando are the two favourites to win the title and beat their team mates, but it could be a different story.
Massa has been testing with Ferrari since 2005 and Lewis spent 1000 hours in the Mclaren simulator prior to this season which have given them a head start in that regard.
I believe that through the course of the season Kimi and Fernando will start to edge ahead of their team mates as they become more settled in the team and with their cars.

Massa is with Ferrari since 2003 not 2005. He was just borrowed to Sauber along with Ferrari engines in 2004.

Lewis is new to f1 he might be faster than alonso for all we know

dolinseks Wrote:
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> Massa is with Ferrari since 2003 not 2005. He was
> just borrowed to Sauber along with Ferrari engines
> in 2004.


Todt said Massa was part of Ferrari since 2001...so he was placed at Sauber twice by Ferrari, first for 2002, then again for 2004/5.

and while Kimi may be having minor issues with the car, he seems uninterested, but i think once the car is perfect, in a few races time, he'll show us the form he had in '05, just driving the nuts off the car.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

But thats the thing with kimi.

When are car is not 100% you need to work at it. People like MS, Senna, Berger, alesi etc always gave 100% even if they could not win. Its no good if u have a driver that only drives when everything is perfect this is what let Dc down.

I wish kimi would drive like he did in 2003,2004,2005