Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**

Posted by turkey_machine 
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 07:06AM
Posted by: Iceman-Kimi
RonnyF1 schreef:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> JPM out of F1 for next season? are these people serious?, hes surely
> the MOST EXCITING DRIVER currently in F1 (when he gets a capable car).
> You all bash him for his time @ Mclaren. Mclaren is obviously not the
> place for him, at all.
>
> Back at Williams he was damn good, even winning when the car wasent
> even close to being good. So now it looks that doesnt count at all
> cause he cant fit in these Mclaren mp-SLASH AMAZINGLY UNDERSTEERY CARS
> that kimi has been driving for so long and that are suited for his
> driving style. Monty was very consistent back in 2003, battling for
> the championship in an age where we used to hear the german hymn at
> every race.
>
> I dont see Kimis fanboys talking about his mistake in the race either,
> with like 2 laps left, come on...

>
> If Montoya doesnt deserve a sit for next year @ F1, then 3/4 of the
> grid doesnt.
>
> "image over 20kbs here"
>
>
>
> 1 keer gewijzigd. Laatste wijziging: 26/06/2006 22:35 door RonnyF1.

Everyone made mistakes, drivers said driving of line was like driving on ice, i saw alonso, fisichella, raikkonen, montoya, schumacher, massa, all other drivers making mistakes but theres one differents, Kimi made that mistake with Michael following him, can happen, he said it does not matter if you are second or third, he isn't fighting for the championship so these kind of mistakes doesnt matter if they happen.

Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 07:51AM
Posted by: marcl
i have always thought jpm was over rated from the day he entered f1 if he was that good he would have thrashed rs. Always thought the move to mclaren was a bad one now he could be out of f1.

i like over taking like the moves on rs, dc and the dc move baut not ones where drivers have to go on the grass to avoid a crash thats not over taking thats a sato move and if he had done that to nico people would blame sato.

thats always been mclarens way 2nd means nothing only winning counts.

as for jb i bet he wishes he went williams honda wont win races for a few years now



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2006 07:56AM by marcl.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 10:54AM
Posted by: Morbid
marcl, let me dare to point out, that you are denying reality to make your point.

RS versus JPM... Uhm, oh yeah lets see...
2001: JPM/RS - points 31/49, win 1/3, poles 3/1, fastest laps 3/5, final standings 6th/4th
2002: JPM/RS - points 50/42, win 0/1, poles 7/0, fastest laps 3/0, final standings 3rd/4th
2003: JPM/RS - points 82/58, win 2/2, poles 1/3, fastest laps 3/1, final standings 3rd/5th
2004: JPM/RS - points 58/24, win 1/0, poles 0/0, fastest laps 2/0, final standings 5th/9th

Not beating RS? What on earth are you talking about? Do you think it was just an accident that RS went to Toyota and JPM went to McLaren?

Counting the seasons on JPM/RS scorecard, it is 3 to 1 in favour of JPM with only JPM's rookie year to RS' credit, counting points its 221 to 173 - thats 48 in favour of JPM, counting wins it is 4 to 6 - 2 in favour of RS which is the only statistic to his credit, counting fastest laps it is 8 to 6 - 2 in favour of JPM and counting final standings JPM was 2 behind once, and 1, 2 and 4 places in front for 3 seasons - lest not forget JPM holds the record for the fastest lap in F1 history.

Do we even watch the same sport?

I have no doubt that putting your claim of "out of 10 moves only 3 work" to the test would produce a similar result.



It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 12:16PM
Posted by: zeppelin101
marcl Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> as for jb i bet he wishes he went williams honda wont win races for a
> few years now
>

You know, I wonder what you actually know about F1 sometimes.

Honda aren't gonna win races if they keep sacking their staff. Fact

Williams aren't gonna win races with the sheer talent at the sharp end of the field. Fact. Unless by some unholy mircale they build the mother of all car's next year and then manage to buy in kimi, then they won't stand a chance for the next few years either.

If he'd have gone to Williams, he would have been in exactly the same position:

1) Williams are horribly inconsistent, and it seems their team radio has a few problems too
2) Honda has performed better than Williams, albeit, not obviously. A pole (however flukey that lap may or may not have been) at Melbourne is one more pole than Williams, and, the Cosworth engine deal hasn't exactly given them no grief in terms of the engine has it? Monaco being the major one here
3) Honda seem to have 19 more points than Williams

So, with these 3 very basic facts, how is it that Button would have been better off at Williams?
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 02:00PM
Posted by: tripleM
"Not beating RS? What on earth are you talking about?"

48 points over 4 years is hardly thrashing.

*shrug*


Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 02:08PM
Posted by: Zyklef
Considering the he lost at least 3 or 4 wins due to mechanical failure its not that bad I don't think. And it seems many people seem to forget that Montoya could have quite easily won the 2003 title if it were not for 2 of these failures. My opinion is that McLaren just isn't the right team for Montoya, way too tightly wound.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 02:13PM
Posted by: turkey_machine
OK, now here's my enlightening opinion on this...

First up, Ralfie should have pulled out long ago, after spinning twice at the same corner, you have to know when you're a liability on the track. Apply it to driving on the road: you keep spinning, you pull over. In fact, on the road, you keep spinning, you shouldn't be driving! ;-);)

Button and Raikkonen were unlucky to slide on the marbles and lose places. That's it. It was great for Coulthard mind.

Nico and Monty's coming together was 50-50 after looking at the footage again. Racing incident, should need no further follow-up.



Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 03:06PM
Posted by: Morbid
tripleM Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Not beating RS? What on earth are you talking about?"
>
> 48 points over 4 years is hardly thrashing.
>
> *shrug*

Who can argue against such brilliance of mind?



It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 04:06PM
Posted by: tripleM
Sorry if i happen to read thrashed as thrashed and not beaten.


Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 04:45PM
Posted by: Morbid
Not a sticky anymore. Thanks for joining in. Do join us in the thread covering the race at Indianapolis.



It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 05:04PM
Posted by: Lemming
Morbid Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do join us in the thread covering the race at Indianapolis.

Nope! I'll be on holiday in America ;)







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2006 05:04PM by Lemming.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 05:28PM
Posted by: vesuvius
Morbid Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> marcl, let me dare to point out, that you are denying reality to make
> your point.
>
> RS versus JPM... Uhm, oh yeah lets see...
> 2001: JPM/RS - points 31/49, win 1/3, poles 3/1, fastest laps 3/5,
> final standings 6th/4th
> 2002: JPM/RS - points 50/42, win 0/1, poles 7/0, fastest laps 3/0,
> final standings 3rd/4th
> 2003: JPM/RS - points 82/58, win 2/2, poles 1/3, fastest laps 3/1,
> final standings 3rd/5th
> 2004: JPM/RS - points 58/24, win 1/0, poles 0/0, fastest laps 2/0,
> final standings 5th/9th
>
> Not beating RS? What on earth are you talking about? Do you think it
> was just an accident that RS went to Toyota and JPM went to McLaren?
>
> Counting the seasons on JPM/RS scorecard, it is 3 to 1 in favour of
> JPM with only JPM's rookie year to RS' credit, counting points its 221
> to 173 - thats 48 in favour of JPM, counting wins it is 4 to 6 - 2 in
> favour of RS which is the only statistic to his credit, counting
> fastest laps it is 8 to 6 - 2 in favour of JPM and counting final
> standings JPM was 2 behind once, and 1, 2 and 4 places in front for 3
> seasons - lest not forget JPM holds the record for the fastest lap in
> F1 history.
>
> Do we even watch the same sport?
>
> I have no doubt that putting your claim of "out of 10 moves only 3
> work" to the test would produce a similar result.
>
>
>


I have to correct few facts :
-RS missed 7 races in 2003 and 2004 so points are actually :195-173 for JPM
-wins are 6-4 for RS
-poles 11-5 for JPM
-Race positions 27-26 for JPM
-qualifying battles 32-29 for RS
-faster race laps 31-27 for JPM


JPM against Kimi :
- points 145-86 for Kimi
-wins 7-3 for Kimi
-poles 6-1 for Kimi
-race positions 15-10 for Kimi
-qualifying battles 18-8 for Kimi
- faster race laps 21-4 for Kimi
-fastest laps in race 12-1 for Kimi



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2006 05:34PM by vesuvius.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 06:15PM
Posted by: Morbid
vesuvius Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I have to correct few facts :
> -RS missed 7 races in 2003 and 2004 so points are actually :195-173
> for JPM
> -wins are 6-4 for RS
> -poles 11-5 for JPM

Since you are correcting facts, how do you explain deducting points from JPM because RS missed races. That has nothing to do with facts, that is distorting and manipulation of numbers, pure and simple.

The wins I already stated exactly as you did, so how are correcting anything here?

I already gave the figures for poles, so again, how are you correcting anything? You are just adding a conclusion that I didn't, which only serves my point even better.

> -Race positions 27-26 for JPM
> -qualifying battles 32-29 for RS
> -faster race laps 31-27 for JPM

Nice stats additional stats. Thanks for the info.


> JPM against Kimi :
> - points 145-86 for Kimi
> -wins 7-3 for Kimi
> -poles 6-1 for Kimi
> -race positions 15-10 for Kimi
> -qualifying battles 18-8 for Kimi
> - faster race laps 21-4 for Kimi
> -fastest laps in race 12-1 for Kimi

Where did that come from? I already thought you said you had "nothing important" as your point? Did you lie or change your mind?



It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 06:33PM
Posted by: vesuvius
Morbid Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> vesuvius Wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have to correct few facts :
> > -RS missed 7 races in 2003 and 2004 so points are actually
> :195-173
> > for JPM
> > -wins are 6-4 for RS
> > -poles 11-5 for JPM
>
> Since you are correcting facts, how do you explain deducting points
> from JPM because RS missed races. That has nothing to do with facts,
> that is distorting and manipulation of numbers, pure and simple.
>
> The wins I already stated exactly as you did, so how are correcting
> anything here?
>
> I already gave the figures for poles, so again, how are you correcting
> anything? You are just adding a conclusion that I didn't, which only
> serves my point even better.
>
> > -Race positions 27-26 for JPM
> > -qualifying battles 32-29 for RS
> > -faster race laps 31-27 for JPM
>
> Nice stats additional stats. Thanks for the info.
>
>
> > JPM against Kimi :
> > - points 145-86 for Kimi
> > -wins 7-3 for Kimi
> > -poles 6-1 for Kimi
> > -race positions 15-10 for Kimi
> > -qualifying battles 18-8 for Kimi
> > - faster race laps 21-4 for Kimi
> > -fastest laps in race 12-1 for Kimi
>
> Where did that come from? I already thought you said you had "nothing
> important" as your point? Did you lie or change your mind?
>
>
>

no I didnt lie or changed my mind, I just added JPM vs Kimi too I'm sorry about that. but my main goal was to correct some JPM vs Ralf statics .... I'm sorry if I hurted someone with my post .
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 07:32PM
Posted by: rapid_f1
lolol

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Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 08:58PM
Posted by: RonnyF1
For all the kimi fanboys and JPM haters, the facts (just in case you are not clear enough):

JPM/Kimi
Grands Prix: 91/95 (many say that JPM has been around for too long...)
Wins: 7/9
Pole positions: 13/9
Fastest laps: 12/17
Maiden win: 1st year/3rd year
Championships: 0

Montoya has a CART championship under his belt, on his rookie year.
Montoya won the Indy 500 in his first attempt.

Raikkonen? oh well, dominated on lesser formulas, so did JPM.

So please point out where Raikkonen is sooo damn superior? oh sorry if i hurted anyone...
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 09:08PM
Posted by: Iceman-Kimi
Raikkonen is so damn superior in the Mclaren;)

Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 09:09PM
Posted by: marcl
2003 and 2004 rs missed races remember up till germany he was as fast as jpm and in with a title shot.

and i meant with willis getting the sack it will take honda a few years to sort it out.

webber was in with a shout for a monaco win thats closer than jb has got all year point made
Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 10:31PM
Posted by: keiran
Montoya is a great driver and his aggression is brilliant. I hate seeing drivers like Ralf who sit and follow the car in front as if he was driving to work down a one way street. Yes Montoya makes a lot of mistakes but to say he is over-rated is just rubbish. He has speed under him, otherwise how would he get the record for the quickest ever lap ? He had a year where he was on the pole position for nearly half the season. You trying to tell me an over-rated driver takes wins, fastest laps and pole positions? No an over-rated driver is someone who doesn't perform at all.

Quote

not ones where drivers have to go on the grass to avoid a crash that's not over taking that's a sato move and if he had done that to nico people would blame sato.

I don't think you understand the rules behind overtaking ... Once the driver has the line into the corner the driver on the outside has to admit defeat. There was no way Schumacher was going to make it round the corner on the outside and he realised that so took to the grass. That was Schumacher's mistake, he should have yielded and slotted in behind Montoya. Rosberg did the same mistake as Schumacher but either didn't realise it soon enough or just tried to hang in there. Either way Rosberg had lost the line to the corner and was responsible for the collision.

Keiran


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Re: Canadian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Date: June 27, 2006 10:36PM
Posted by: Morbid
Why not add total F1 points in career... Looking at a very broad view:

JPM: 307 (6th season) /Kimi: 320 (6th season) /RS: 312 (9th season)

Again a very slight difference between Kimi and JPM. RS isn't even in the same league as those two.

@ vesuvius: as I pointed out, you corrected nothing, only falsified information I had already given, and repeated stuff I said. Then you come with the Kimi/JPM stats, where you don't even apply the same method of deducting from the other party where the first missed races. JPM missed races because of his "tennis fracture", but I did not see you eager to compensate for that. Not doing what you did to the first set of figures, to the second set is definately deliberately cheating to force a point that isn't present.

Similarly, there has been 19+9 = 28 races where JPM and Kimi have been teammates. In your race positions you count 25 races - 3 are missing (tennis accident + what?). Qualifying battles you count 26 - 2 are missing (tennis accident) Faster race you mention 25 races (tennis accident + what?). I don't even know where these stats come from, and they are not easy to check. Given the way you handle numbers and facts, I am doubtful that I should just take your word for it, but I guess I have to.

You might honestly be sorry, but the way you present yourself and your position, it seems so many times more likely that it is sarcasm with a smirk.

In general - I think it is appalling that people come here, not to celebrate a shared interest, but to bring things they dislike and spreading it to others. If your driver isn't outperforming his teammate, its open season, if your driver is bold it is open season, if he is timid he is boring and it is open season, if he makes mistakes he gets bashed for that to. Yes bashing might give you a kick, but what's the fun in it?

At Hockenheim 2003 we where 3 people on the grandstand at the end of the second straight. Me, who wanted to see JPM, Vader who wanted to see Kimi, and my brother in law Steven, devout M$ fan. We had a good trip together and a whole lot of fun. Imagine the bunch in this thread getting along with anyone, sheez! Grow up and get a life ...



It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2006 10:52PM by Morbid.
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