Mika or Schuie?

yeah Monza '96 was amazing, when he clouted the tyres and retired, you could see how deflated he was after that, he couldn't believe it.

MS also hit the tyres, but let go of the wheel to allow the wheels to have their way, whereas Hill kept hold of it so something snapped in the steering or suspension.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

I've been a formula 1 fan ever since 1993, and I've never really liked an driver in particular, just liking close racing. I have to say that I was thoroughly impressed that Mika Hakkinen out-qualified Ayrton Senna in his first actual race for McLaren. It really showed his talend. Micheal Schumacher on the other hand had a lightning start F1 career as well, using the Jordan to get to seventh on the grid and the next race he was in the Benetton.

The way they're carreers proceeded are very different from there on, Micheal managed to gather a lot of people around him and make a winning team out of Benetton, and then proceded in taking those same people with him to Ferrari and make that into a top team as well. He really managed to bring those teams back but lets not forget that he also needed those people and kept them around, I'd like to see Micheal drive the new torro rosso without those people around him.

Mika on the other hand had quite a few years of stuggling ahead of him at McLaren. Mika was helping the team to improve their performances, and was always the number one driver except for 1997 and 2001. Back then from 1994 to 1997 Mika always had to deal with poor relibility, and coming and going of people where Micheal had a steady enviroment. So it was harder for him since he had to adjust each year. Mika finally made it when Mclaren attracked Adrian Newey.

If I look at the years where they Micheal and Mika fought for the championship Mika might have had a faster car, but you also wouldn't see someone like Montero in a Renault R205 and win. The driver is crucial to the performance and Mika outclassed coulthard in those years (except for a few races) while they where driving similar cars. Whereas Micheal's teammates where not always driving similar cars to that of their leading man. I know for a fact that Jos Verstappen in 1994 made a comment that he once drove Micheal's spare car and that it was so different to his normal car that he couldn't drive it.

In terms of personality Mika was more politically correct and showed less emotions, he saved everything for the track, he was not someone for the media. Mika always respected his fellow drivers, one quality which more drivers could use in my opinion. Micheal on the other hand was always in the media, proved by his "accidents" in Jerez, Adelaide and Spa. And sometimes lashed out at other drivers.

Overall I'd say both driver had their up and down, Mika's down where a bit longer than Micheal's. But they both are in my opinion in the same level as Senna and Prost. Mika in pure speed and overtaking and Micheal in the overal package. Unfortunately we'll never know for sure since they were never in the same car in F1.

Raymond Schram

P.S. Are you guys asleep yet, didn't mean for it to be so long.

well you say Mika never had the correct people around him. but MS only had them because he wanted them and told his management that he wanted those people, so they should get them into the team.

Mika maybe then should have been more of a team leader like MS, and requested that certain enginners should be brought to the team to make it better.

and you say that Monteiro wouldn't have been able to to take the title with the '05 Renault, so the driver is still very important. i agree with you, so i find it annoying when people criticise MS for having the best car in '02 or '04. MS won some races by almost a whole minute in '04, but say Monteiro or some pay driver had that car, they might have won the race, but they would have had to fight and might just have taken the win by a couple of seconds.

MS doesn't get the credit he deserves for some of his drives, especially the ones where it appears he won by a mile and a minute.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

I didn't said that Mika never had the right people, I'm just saying the that changing people around in a team doesn't make for a stable enviroment to develop a car, in that aspect Mika had it more difficult than Micheal.

I do agree with you about the 2002 to 2004 period, Micheal might have had the best car, but he still had to do it. It's easy to criticize someone for mistakes or an advantage. Every F1 fan prefers to see a championship fight down to the last grand prix, if someone wins races with that appearant easy like mclaren in early 1998 and ferrari in 2002/2004 they immediately start yelling.

The main criticism started because of the games ferrari played in 2002 with the race in austria and indy, and those where a bad thing for the sport. 2003 was an excellent season so no one complained. 2004 was once again ferrari dominated so the criticism was picked up where it left of in 2002. I personally didn't see the fuss in 2004, the other teams just weren't good enough to challenge. What there were still plenty of fights on the track furthur down the field.

Raymond Schram

Shufosi, the problem in everywhere, never give up what they believe. Good work



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2006 09:35PM by ColdBlood.

yeah Indy & Austria '02 were both absolutely stupid things to do, by both the management, and the 2 drivers.

you can't blame Rubens for following team orders, but i was disappointed with MS for not standing up and being a bigger man and refusing to win the race.

Indy was pure stupidity from MS. he may have wanted to secretly pay Rubens back for Austria, but he ripped-off the paying fans at Indy by playing with the result like that.

sometimes he can't see the bigger picture, he's maybe too naive in situations like that.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

but hakkinen did won a race cause coulthard let him pass, why you guys don't care that ? i hear everywear, michael their and ferrari their, why ? cause they were to dominate ?? the sport was to boring cause michael and ferrari always won ? cause michael had some accidents like adelaide, jerez ? hi was just trying to defense his place

"I'm just saying the that changing people around in a team doesn't make for a stable enviroment to develop a car, in that aspect Mika had it more difficult than Micheal."

Schumacher won the title in 2000 with Irvine's mechanics.

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So Irvine had Schui's mechanics? Was that all season?

"So Irvine had Schui's mechanics? Was that all season?"

No.He refused to work with them in 1999 post Silverstone.

Schumacher got Irvine's race engineer and a few other people for 2000

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@ Storm, maybe you misunderstand me. I am a big MS fan, but there are some things he has done that can't be defended.

and yes, i have complained in the past that the first 2 wins of Mika's career (not just Jerez '97, but Australia '98) were given to him unnecessarily, which was totally wrong and unneeded.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

yes dc let mika pass in australia in 1998 but that was an agrement with the drivers before the race so they say, they agreed who led into the 1st corner would win if they were 1 2 so dc let him pass. Mika was only behind due to a pit mistake.

The only time dc let him pass with team orders was spain 1997 and that pissed dc off, can not say i blamed him.

but what happened in 2002 did not need to happen, it was so early in the year and ms already had a big lead

Jerez 97 race was a Joke lol.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

yeah the australia mistake was due to a broken radio or miscommunication from the pitwall to Mika, so he came into the pits when he shouldn't have or didn't need to, but that should have made the agreement null and void.

DC should have kept the win and told Mika that he made the mistake, so he forfeited the win, and Mika should have accepted that.

had there been no mistakes, then of course Mika would have been in front of DC anyway, and took the win on merit.

it's pretty much the same situation as Indy '02 IMO.

and Jerez '97 was a bad move from mclaren. DC was the lead mclaren, so when williams and mclaren agreed that JV would not fight if the mclarens got behind him, DC should have won with Mika 2nd.

DC shouldn't have been expected to give up "his" win, even though, rightly, neither of them "deserved" it.

but mclarens excuse was they gave Mika the win "for all his hard work throughout the years".

what a load of bull. you can't just swap drivers round because you want to pay a driver back for his hard work, that makes a mockery of the whole thing.

had they been in the title race and Mika needed as many points as possible to win the title, then it would have been justified to tell DC tolet Mika past, but it was a very lame reason to do it at Jerez.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

they said it was due to silverstone and the european gps. I dont think they should have moved dc over, they also said it was due to mika being faster and dc taking to long to get passed the back marker.

but in 1998 them points mika gained from australia put him infront for the japan race. Brazil was mikas 1st proper win.

I remember imola 1989 when senna and prost said they would not pass before the 1st corner. Senna claimed that was only valid for the 1st start not the 2nd one lol that pissed prost off big time

"DC should have kept the win and told Mika that he made the mistake, so he forfeited the win, and Mika should have accepted that."

There was a podium phtograph in one Australian newspaper with a caption

Coulthard:"Why are you crying,i'm the one who had to move over"

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 06:19PM by tripleM.

lol yeah i remember seeing it on the internet, or something like that.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

the pace mika set whilst catching dc in australia was mind blowing he was lapping 2 secs faster than the next none mclaren car

they were lapping about 2(or even more) seconds faster than the rest all race

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Yeah Mika dominated Melbourne 1998 until that pistop mess happened , I think he deserved that win more than DC .