The Italian Grand Prix Thread *** EXPECT SPOILERS!!!***

@lemming, you're wrong at calculating losses. though you state the absolute points loss, if you consider that alonso's degree would be one lower in those circumstances, then his real loss would be:
Australia
Malaysia -4pts
Bahrain
Imola -12 pts
Spain
Monaco
Europe -12 pts
Canada
USA
France -4 pts
Britain -6 pts
Germany -12 pts
Hungary
Turkey
Italy -7 pts

he lost 53 pts to alonso, the difference is 27 pts now. even if you don't consider europe since there's somewhat driver issue, he would have lost 41 pts.
i am ashamed of being a strong mclaren fan. i wouldn't care if the car was like last year's, but with a strong car like that...

ps. just by kimi's losses mclaren would also be a far great leader, save for montoya's bad lucks.

only way to tell who's the fastest is to stick everyone in identical cars, but then that would spoil the competition.

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Lemming Wrote:
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> only way to tell who's the fastest is to stick
> everyone in identical cars, but then that would
> spoil the competition.
>
>


that wouldn't tell it either because everyone has so different driving style .

Zcott Wrote:
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> I think a brand new engine would be preferrable to
> one with a day and a half of running, but I can't
> really comment because I'm not a racing driver.
>
> It still raises an important question: How can you
> tell who the fastest driver is these days? With a
> number of different variables - tyre makes, tyre
> compound choices, engine, car, fondness of track,
> etc - it's almost impossible to say that one
> person is the fastest.
>
>
> Blame RedSam for the above.


this same statement explains why MS is neither the fastest driver ever, nor a legend. his car was far superior to others for more than 4 years (more than those mlaren and renault to others).

watercolours Wrote:
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> this same statement explains why MS is neither the
> fastest driver ever, nor a legend. his car was far
> superior to others for more than 4 years (more
> than those mlaren and renault to other

you are right about that

watercolours Wrote:

> this same statement explains why MS is neither the
> fastest driver ever, nor a legend. his car was far
> superior to others for more than 4 years (more
> than those mlaren and renault to others).

I disagree. Although I'm no fan, I can respect his achievements. Being at the top of F1 for the guts of 10 years takes some achievements, regardless of the car. He won some races in 1996 in a car that deserved no better than the third row of the grid, and even under pressure from the superfast McLarens of the late 90s, he still took the championship to the last few rounds in a car that was clearly not the best. Yes, he has had the advantage of the best car over the last few years, but I think it would be wrong to say that the most successful driver in the history of the sport isn't a legend.

he isn't a legend for me. i don't accept a driver for whom sportsmanship is not important and a team for whom victory is above sportsmanship as legends.
i of course accept MS's achievements particularly making a mid-grid team into a top team but that has nothing to do with his driving skills or sportsmanship but his talents in leadership. if you consider him as a legend for winning the championship on a slower car then alonso is also a legend, and kimi has missed to be a legend just by 2 pts in 2003.
MS is a champion, not a legend, not a hero. that's all.
and alonso will be the same.

Gilles Villeneuve is a legend and he never won a Championship...


Team McLaren
Grand Prix entries:597 Wins:148 Pole Positions:122

race=lol except pizza boy

my predictions saying he would be better than nick and webbo lol

button = rofl!! hahahahaahha

no lol at kimi

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

IceKimi Wrote:
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> Gilles Villeneuve is a legend and he never won a
> Championship...

Let's name some other legends.

Fangio? Won 5 championships.

Senna? Won 3 championships and captivated the world.

Prost? Won 4 championships.

Mansell? Won 1 championship, but had a unique attitude.

I think it would be unfair to call Prost, Senna, or Fangio a legend but not Schumacher.

rofl sChumacher not a legend.
People are just idiotic to suggest such a thing.

Schumacher is as much a legend as Senna, as Gilles, as Mansell e.t.c.
Schumacher 1995 - 2000 was just pure class. He did much more in cars which were awful than cars which won the championships than he should have, he really showed his class.
If people can count Hakkinen as a legend than Schumacher is definately one. Give him the 1998 and 1999 Mclarens and the title would have been won ages before Suzuka. His qualifying in first ever race was a class act as well.


Anyway onto the race. Shame the director @#$%& it up but it was good.
Title over and well done Alonso for winning the title.
Raikkonen showed his class today. Only 22 secs behind Montoya after all that has happened to him today
Well done to Massa, he pwned all over JV and beat BOTH ferrari's.
Kudos to Fisichella and Montoya for great drives.

jv lost alot of time in his 1st pit stop

storming drive by kimi never gave up. looking at it he probably would have 2nd if that tyre had not gone wrong but saying that would have won if it not for the engine.

a better rule would be not to go back 10 places but for that car not to score points but let the driver score.

This weekend has highlighted everything that is wrong with the current F1 regulations.

I hope Kimi creams everyone in the remaining races. What a disastrous weekend, alonso (nothing against him he is good enough) cruises to an easy 8 points. Schumacher went backwards, Sato was unlucky, and Kimi should have just parked up and headed for the bar after his tyre came undone.

or maybe time penalty?

time penalty still hurts the driver.... giving half or no points to the constructor for that car would be better i think

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just looking at fastest laps

[www.pitpass.com]

LOOK HOW MUCH VILLENEUVE HELD KIMI UP!! only the minardis and jordans were slower than him

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It was interesting to note that all 20 cars finished today, considering the high stress and heat on the engines because of the long straights.

Since Kimi seems to be some kind of demi-god around these parts, why couldn't he pass Villeneuve?

Because he had double the amount of fuel Villeneuve had

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indeed why couldnt he.
kimi's good and all but his total package has let him down, while Alonso hasnt.
Alonso is the deserved champion, Kimi however is the fastest guy in the sport atm.