What do you think of Ferrari?

reliability on MS's car - amazing

technically - brilliant

sporting attitude - disgusting attitude regard for motorsport






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

"Let's just wait and let the drivers do the talking on the track next season."

You mean ross Brawn and Jean todt are Ferrari's 2003 drivers then?



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Your post simpley prove how stupid is FIA.

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"Let's just wait and let the drivers do the talking on the track next season."

You mean ross Brawn and Jean todt are Ferrari's 2003 drivers then?



Visit my website [www.mrears.com]

"Your post simpley prove how stupid is FIA."

Tell that to Alex- he just said theres no favortism, and now you say they are stupid?

Are they or arent they? Well Anze just admitted that they are stupid - they are biast - and he knows it - he belives Ferrari are the ebst - but knows the FIA are biast - thats a man who thinks

My post does more than this of course. It tells you bout all the times Micheal and his teams have eiether had the FIA lean towards them, or have been in trouble in some way or another

I think you will agree, this list is more than all other current F1 drivers added up




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

"No, sasjag, while Ellis is preparing his holy list, why don't you give me some examples? Or is it that you don't really know, and just go with the flow, and just plain dislike Ferrari. You're one of the people who never backs up their argument. It's just "Ferrari cheat". It wouldn't surprise me if you didn't really know why you're saying that..."

Aint thta a bit pathetic Alex? All he is doing was saying its better for me to post it whilst cos i already have it. Why should he make the same list? Whats the point, knowing im about to post it?

I was just away for soemthing to eat, i come back and your having a go at sasjag for being sensible and not wasting his time

man you make so much sense




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

FIA is stupid, that for you can't say, that Ferrari is cheating!!

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No, but we can say they are incredibly biast towards Ferrari

If they are so good, why do they need this?

Also, i have listed the times they cheat (spenag 99 is the best), and the FIA change the rules - therefore - both at fault




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

No, sasjag, while Ellis is preparing his holy list, why don't you give me some examples? Or is it that you don't really know, and just go with the flow, and just plain dislike Ferrari. You're one of the people who never backs up their argument. It's just "Ferrari cheat". It wouldn't surprise me if you didn't really know why you're saying that...

OK Alex, don't get your knickers in a twist. The reason I said that is because I had to go pick up some family to watch the Match, hence I din't have time to type a list up.

I do know ferrari have cheated, I don't go with the flow. I have never liked ferrari from when i started watching F1. i supported Irv, but never ferrari. I don't dislike ferrari, i HATE them.

I do and can back up my arguments, but Ellis had all the info pre-prepared, I didn't have time so I let him do it.

I also know why I am saying that ferrari cheat. I have read loads of books, seen loads of tapes and races, and it is plain obvious that ferrari cheat. One of my Girly-Friends hates F1, we watched a race together, and at the end she asked me why ferrari had to cheat? her first race and she could see they were cheating. I think it was Austria 98, where Eddie claimed he had brake problems , then when Scumacher overtook him he suddenly was back on the pace.

I'm not sure if you realized....

But the reason I started this post (as Ellis knows...) was to see whether Ferrari fans are able to express their opinions within this forum without having some people bash their ideas.

In my opinion, the most sensible and mature responses was Alex's:

"Austria was a big mistake. They learnt from it. All teams make mistakes, and to be honest all teams use team orders, but Ferrari were subject to all the accusations, just because it happened at the front.

My opinion of Scuderia Ferrari: The greatest Formula One team ever, and this season, combining the best team members and the best car with the best driver, producing one of the most exceptional displays of dominance in the history of the sport, which was wonderful to behold. They will always be the greatest team."

as well as Zcott's (from an anti-Ferrari Fan I am guessing):

"Ferrari: Good stuff. Nicely done this year, absolute perfectionists, no regard for the sport, but did the best job."

I think many Ferrari-haters have a hard time accepting the fact that Ferrari and Schumacher have won nearly every record there is to win.

What I find hard to understand is this... Ellis (as well as others) keeps repeating about Ferrari's cheating... Ellis even took the time to write down a "cheating list". However, what exactly are you all trying to accomplish?

Are you trying to make us hate Ferrari? Are you trying to make us like the driver/team you like? Aren't you all mature enough to accept we might like Ferrari and support Micheal/Rubens?

We even admit that Ferrari made a mistake in Austria, so what are you trying to convince us?

Can't we have a mature and sensible conversation? Can't we just give out our opinion without having others complain?

Just put it this way... Imagine somebody asked me what I think of a team.. lets say Jordon. Can't I just say "I don't really like the team..." instead of saying "I don't like them.. and let me give you a list of all the bad things they did".

Now for the anti-ferrari fans... Just imagine YOUR favourite driver/team had won, do you think you'd bother repeating how much Ferrari cheat and how much they have (according to you of course) cheated in the past? Of course not.

It's very simple. Most of you can't accept the fact that Ferrari have won, and you do your best to disagree with every good comment regarding Ferrari.

Of course I'm not referring to anyone in particular, though I think we should all try to accept each other's opinion.

Now, I'm expecting Ellis to reply with a comment to every line in this post... He's very good at doing that you know :P



___Marc___

"are you trying to make us hate Ferrari?"

Ditto, are you trying to make us like Ferrari? It's very easy to just go along with what someone else is saying Marc (as Alex accused Sasjag of doing), but how bout speaking for yourself?

"We even admit that Ferrari made a mistake in Austria, so what are you trying to convince us?"

Not we, marc, you didn't admit anything about Austria :-p

Besides, this is the point - Austria is (shock horror) not the only unsporting act that Ferrari have done this year.

But yes, one of your points is valid, but it doesnt relate to Ferrari, or F1, but just arguing in general. This type of argument is rather pointless because neither will agree with the other, but still, back to this argument, stop the old 'you just hate Ferrari, so you are chatting rubbish' routine, because it's just a very very easy way out - and another lie. Damn ferrari have a lasting effect on you supporters! :-D



Visit my website [www.mrears.com]

"What I find hard to understand is this... Ellis (as well as others) keeps repeating about Ferrari's cheating... Ellis even took the time to write down a "cheating list". However, what exactly are you all trying to accomplish?"

When telling a story, both sides must be told to alow a fair assesment

ALL we get from Alex (and others) is the facts and figures on the records of Schumacher and Ferrari. What you forget to mention is all the times Micheal and Ferrari (and Benetton) have cheated, or been in trouble etc.

Im am simply mentioinng all these times to allow readers fair assesments, instead of simply hearing bout all the amazing times of Micheal 'god' schumacher

"Now, I'm expecting Ellis to reply with a comment to every line in this post... He's very good at doing that you know :P"

Thats because often most of the stuff Ferrari fans come up with is complete bullshit - and has another side to it - they just never mention it....funny that eh...

"Can't we have a mature and sensible conversation? Can't we just give out our opinion without having others complain?"

Ok, we will - first you have to tell alex that Micheal isnt some kind of god, and Ferrari arent the most important thing in F1

Ferrari needs F1. F1 does not need Ferrari to survive

"Ellis even took the time to write down a "cheating list""

It didnt take much time - i simply add to it every two weeks.....

now Alex accused Sasjag of "going with the flow", so marc, PLEASE dont take offence to wot im bout to say. But arent you just going with the flow? You havent followed F1 for very long and came in when Micheal and Ferrari were at the top - isnt that glory hunting?

Do you remember most of these times i listed? Probably not!

(As i said, no offence to be taken there marcy)

Do you know anything bout Micheal before 2000? If not, then your probably in for a surpirse. Rad the full list....its quiet extensive yes, but im sure you can find time.

Im using Alex's own argument agaisnt the Ferrari fans. alex has NO proof what-so-ever that Sasjag is simply following the rest. But Marc, i knowmyou havent been following F1 that long, therefore you are guilty of Alex's argument (i have the MSN conversations too proove it).

Is this double standards again?




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

What I find hard to understand is this... Ellis (as well as others) keeps repeating about Ferrari's cheating... Ellis even took the time to write down a "cheating list". However, what exactly are you all trying to accomplish?

So what? are just tryig to prove that ferrari have cheated before

Are you trying to make us hate Ferrari? Are you trying to make us like the driver/team you like? Aren't you all mature enough to accept we might like Ferrari and support Micheal/Rubens?

No, everyone can support who they want. I never tried to get you to support Jag. Alex asked for an xample of when ferrari cheated, so we gave him some.

We even admit that Ferrari made a mistake in Austria, so what are you trying to convince us?

That one I will accept. In fact I don't think I have ever mentioned austria on this board.

Can't we have a mature and sensible conversation? Can't we just give out our opinion without having others complain?

So what the @!#$ are you doing? I was just giving my opinion that i think ferrari are cheaters, and i get grilled for it.

Just put it this way... Imagine somebody asked me what I think of a team.. lets say Jordon. Can't I just say "I don't really like the team..." instead of saying "I don't like them.. and let me give you a list of all the bad things they did".

Again Alex asked for some examples, Ellis didn't just post them for no reason.

Now for the anti-ferrari fans... Just imagine YOUR favourite driver/team had won, do you think you'd bother repeating how much Ferrari cheat and how much they have (according to you of course) cheated in the past? Of course not.

Okay, first, if Jag won, I'd have a heart attack. Secondly, I was asked what i thought of ferrari. It is not like me to just go into any topic and say"ferrar are a bunch of cheaters" . I would repeat it nly if necessary

It's very simple. Most of you can't accept the fact that Ferrari have won, and you do your best to disagree with every good comment regarding Ferrari.

I acept that they have won, I just don't respect it, cause they have done it in the worst most unsporting way possible

ALL we get from Alex (and others) is the facts and figures on the records of Schumacher and Ferrari. What you forget to mention is all the times Micheal and Ferrari (and Benetton) have cheated, or been in trouble etc.

So your problem is not Ferrari, is MS and his court. Sorry to say then but he did not announce he could quit F1.

"So your problem is not Ferrari, is MS and his court. Sorry to say then but he did not announce he could quit F1."

Read the quote again please....here it is here \/

"ALL we get from Alex (and others) is the facts and figures on the records of Schumacher and Ferrari. What you forget to mention is all the times Micheal and Ferrari (and Benetton) have cheated, or been in trouble etc."

Now, the after reading that again, it shows yuou point is totally invalid. My problem is not Ferrari? But wasnt it ther tactics?




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

I guess that without Ferrari (and MS) almost all German market would be lost for F1. Same goes for Italy - even if Ferrari gets smacked by the Italian press from time to time, it is still the motorsport institution there. Niot to speak of money FIA gets for licenses.

I don't like Ferraris recent policy and I don't the way MS behaves most of the time, but I fear that F1 without Ferrari will never be the same. Plus - I said it before - most teams would rather beat Ferrari on track as let them leave F1. Sir Frank and Mr. Dennis would like to get a chance for revenge, I bet.

This is definately the worst crisis F1 has ever been into, it is a power struggle where all can only lose. This struggle between FIA and the teams does more damage to the image of F1 as Ferraris behaviour during the whole 2002 season. F1, quo vadis?

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REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS

its not much of an example austria 98 for a cheating allegation,ferrari switched irvine and ms which they were well within there rights to do so how you and your girly think that is cheating is beyond me,ms only finished third in that race and they were maximising his chances for the championship.it's called team orders not cheating what happened at that race.
and he wasn't suddenly back up to pace it was done 3 laps before the finish,can you honestly tell me no other team in the same position would of done different,if mika at mclaren was behind dc with 3 laps to go do you really think they would of done different

"Silverstone 97: I'm sorry but how is this cheating?"

It shows how biast the FIA are - issue a penatly, only after Ferrari have complaiend of course

Ahh,is a suspended race ban so important.No,because it wasnt the reason that JV got DQ in Japan,no because it was only for 1 race,no because there was no safety-car in Germany.


"Suzuka 97: JV gets in trouble because of the above mentioned incident. That's entirely fair. You ignore JV's deadly swipe at Schumacher as he came out of the pits."

JV was out of order - defiantly (same with DC - Hockenhiem 2000)

But why was it only JV who got in trouble out of all the cars who passed that yellow flag? Even Micheal passed it

Answer: Because JV was a major threat to Micheal winning the title


No,because as i said many times before JV had a suspended race ban that took effect(and Ferrari wasnt the reason he got it).


"Sepang 01: WTF!? Now you're defending team orders! Christ. Schumacher just did a damn fine overtaking manouvre on Barrichello."

ah but you see- it was no such thing. They were told to stay there until it drived, and micheal went round RB, RB not expecting it, and then when RB asked why, he got no answer from Ferrari

THEY WERE TOLD-if that isnt a tem order then what is it.



"Silverstone 98: FIA issued penalty too late. Ferrari's actions were legitimate."

and again thats....incorrect. at the time of this race, n such rule exsited - the rule was put in AFTERWARDS to allow micheal to keep the win as the FIA didnt know wot to do in the situation

Fact is - micheal won in the pit lane, without taking the stop - the time added on was just enough to allow micheal to keep the win- funny that eh?



Yes,funny,the way some people interprit the mistake.Whats wrong with the time being added.Oh you think Mika would have won.Well theres no proof now,whether 22 sec would have been enough to serve the penalty and get out ahead.

"Monaco 98: Stop dragging up trash that has no relevance."

Shows how biast the FIA - not irrelevent at all

Monaco 98: (not MS fault but shows how biast FIA are) Wurz is blue flagged and forec to let MS past....they were racing for position at the time

They were side by side already.MS made the move into the hairpin.

Bla,bla,bla.It is pathetic, you think that 90% of our arguments is bullshit,yet somehow you dont answer to ALL our points and in the same time want us to answer all of yours.

What about Canada98,Belgium98,about other races from Alex list.



You say that Ferrari , MS , Benetton, Brown,Todt,everybody involved with them cheat.Well if you discard all of your pathetic accusations it would still make MS great,however you look at it.




In my oppinion Ferraris dominance is totally desrved-they are the ones that push f1 forward technically,they were the ones that kept the fans happy during 1997-1999,they take their job far seriously than their rivals.





So i think we will see racing when Williams and McLaren start doing a rarther more competent job.It takes MORE than 2 cars to make a great race.

It is cheating because ³151c of the FIA rules does forbid ANYTHING that prevents competition. Not letting your drivers race and fix the result from the pits does contradict the idea of competition an dis thus a clear violation of said article.

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REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS

Mcaren did not let Mika pass DC in Spa 1999, although Mika had more chances winning the title back then.

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REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS