A$$HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *SPOILER*

It's always good to have you around in a discussion about MS Alex. You actually think rationally, and not with scarlet glasses. Thanks.

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Currently Driving: Watkins Glen Original
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Perhaps an onboard shot from one car or the other will shed light on the situation.

there is no onboard shots because they used a helicopter and not track side pickup points for the onboard signals, and a helicopter cant see through the tunnel (notice how we cut away from onboard on the full laps?)

The cameras showed enough for me. Michael locked his brakes were visiblity is low, then when JPM went to avoid he turned in. Thats two no-nos for me there


Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

damn people youve discussed a clear racing incident for 4 pages in less than an hour. I won;t bother reading all this as much as I hate Montoya MS is also to blame just as much if not more so rule it as a racing incident simple as that.

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And as for the Ralf/Alonso incident, this one is getting on my nerves too. Who is in a place to point the finger at any one of them? OK, it was perhaps a display of inexperience by Alonso to go for the outside line in the tunnel. But he had little choice other than to slow behind Ralf and lose any chance of victory. So is Ralf to blame, then? I don't think so. If, like people are saying, Ralf knew he was going to be slow and therefore should have let Alonso through before, then think on this: if he was so slow, then Alonso wasn't anywhere near him when he went into the tunnel. Ralf wouldn't have known that he'd be in a hazardous position come the second half of the tunnel. It's unfair really to blame Ralf for lack of foresight. And I guess it's unfair to pin all the blame on Alonso for risking a pass in a bad place, given what was at stake.

It was a racing accident, although I do sympathise with Alonso with regard to his anger at Ralf.

EDIT: Didn't realise there was another topic about this. Although it just serves to highlight the point of my post that it's titled "Ralf is an @#$%&". The title of this thread is stupid, too.



HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2004 05:23PM by _Alex_.

Ellis puts it in perspective and had I got here first, my words would have been idenitcal.

You DO NOT, under any circumstance, brake so hard that you lock up in a dark tunnel with other cars following you... that applies to road cars but ESPECIALLY to racing cars.

Secondly, when a car swerves to avoid hitting you and comes alongside you on the right, you DO NOT also swerve to the right.

Secondly, when a car swerves to avoid hitting you and comes alongside you on the right, you DO NOT also swerve to the right.

forget that one cole , as the visibility is so null in the tunnel Schumi didnt see montoya
why do you think that many drivers in a fight situation start to defend their line right after they exit the tunnel .
it was a racing incident for me , schumi was not expecting montoya to be so close ... whatever , I won´t put any more comment on this thread

How do you know how hard he braked? Brakes lock up very, very easily on F1 cars, at any speed. The cameras in the tunnel were only playing back in slow-mo, so in addition to the distorted picture, you have absolutely no impression of speed whatsoever. How do you know it wasn't Montoya going way too quickly for the situation? You don't. And neither do I, or anyone here. It's for Michael and Montoya (and, I guess, the stewards) to sort out.



HISTORIC BTCC VIDEOS

lol alex

he braked hard dont worry there

this is alonso on his crash

The reason for the crash is pretty simple: I was lapping Ralf, and he ignored the blue flags for the first seven corners. He slowed down to let me by at the entrance to the tunnel, then got back on the throttle and pushed me wide. There's no grip on the outside there, and I lost control. It's extremely frustrating, and cost us a one-two finish."

Over at F1-live ralf didnt comment... panzi



this is Montoya's comment on the incident

With regards to the contact with Michael in the tunnel, Michael braked very hard as he was warming up his brakes and I moved to the right side of the track to avoid him but the gap narrowed and we touched.


this is idiot ross brawns comments... its not what u expect from him really

Brawn said: "It was very unfortunate. You don't want to go out of a race for that reason. We were informed that the safety car was coming in and it is normal to warm your brakes up."

"Juan Pablo hit the back of him. We had a chance of winning the race, not a great one but a chance. We had a lot of fuel left in the car and it may have been possible. It is very frustrating to go out like that."

and ferrari's race report hasnt been posted at f1live unfortunatly. probably trying to catch MS after he ran away

ralf should get a 3 or 100 race ban, and no one warms up the brakes by locking them, no matter how easy they are to lockup. what was he planning to do with his flat spot?

and ms driving round the track with his car in piece is worse than sato with a smoky engine.

give both the shumy brothers a month off.

____
Tony

Who is in a place to point the finger at any one of them? OK, it was perhaps a display of inexperience by Alonso to go for the outside line in the tunnel. But he had little choice other than to slow behind Ralf and lose any chance of victory.

MArtin Brundle and Mark Blundell are in a pretty good spot, and both of them have laid the blame firmly at Ralfs door. Ralf slowed and gave Alonso ZERO chance of staying behind him. It was either pass him, or hit him. Obviously, Alonso chose to pass him and hope. Obviously he didnt hope enough, and we seen the result. 100% ralfs fault for forcing Alonso to pass at a stupid place

Very much the same situation with Michael. Braked in a place with alot less visibility, gave Monty no chance of stopping, and forced him to avoid. So JPM avoids and then the gap hes in is suddenly reduced to zero. There was no need to close the gap, they are under SC, it doesnt count for position

JPM didnt hit the back of Schumacher, he was alongside, that is very clear despite the bad TV pictures. Then the gap was closed, schumachers car was pulled onto the inside barrier, bounced over the outside barrier (where he took the brunt of the damage), and that was it. JPM had no chance of avoiding him. Both Schumachers done rather stupid things today in my, and many peoples opinions


Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

I must admit the MS/JPM incident was unusual... I have watched GP's and reviews of GP'sfrom 1988 and from what i have seen i have never EVER seen anyone lock brakes up while behind the saftey car warming up their brakes.

He could have picked far better spots than in a dark tunnel as well. and also know he didnt swerve to the right as montoya was coming it was the way he braked that caused him to go to the right hand side.

Anyhoo, with damning evidence on both sides of the court i see leave it as a racing accident or demote them both 10 places back on the grid next race :P

and also know he didnt swerve to the right as montoya was coming it was the way he braked that caused him to go to the right hand side.

He was well off the brakes by the time the impact of the two cars happened.

Its also unusuall to lock the outside wheel, thats the loaded wheel.


Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

Race stewards have declined to take any further action following the controversial collision between Michael Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya in the tunnel during a safety car period in the Monaco Grand Prix.

The crash occurred when Schumacher was warming his brakes, and his sudden deceleration appeared to catch out the following Montoya, who was a lap down. Despite taking evasive action, Montoya's Williams clipped Schumacher's Ferrari into a slide, which caused it to hit the barriers on both sides of the track.

Schumacher was forced to retire from the race because of heavy suspension damage, but Montoya went on to finish fourth.

Both Schumacher, Montoya and team representatives were summoned to the stewards' room at the behest of the race director. After hearing evidence from all concerned, and reviewing telemetry from the cars, the stewards have decided that no further action is necessary.

Autosport.com


Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

got to this thread

[www.thescuderia.net]

lol

Is this the Holy Grail of Fanboyism!?!

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"Treat others with respect and you too will be respected." Oac - ed'c dnia - E ys yldiymmo drec cyt.

well lets end thisd thread simply. WITHOUT DOUBT it was ms fault. there was nothing wrong with what he done, its where he did it is the problem you do not brake that hard in a dark tunnel. asimple as. shud he be penalised by the stewards? i think it wud be a bit tough but he shud certainly get a severe bollocking although of course he wont.

Q. Whats the difference between MS and JPM ?


A. One just WINS, the other Juan just Whines!

Thats great
I love to see the anti montoya, it makes me smile

Its true what they say though... If the situatrion would have been the other way round, they would kick up so much fuss with "MS should be more careful..." but because its was MS who got taken out, it was all MS' fault...



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Its true what they say though... If the situatrion would have been the other way round, they would kick up so much fuss with "MS should be more careful..." but because its was MS who got taken out, it was all MS' fault...

ROFL. If Jaun had braked in the tunnel i guess all the Schumacher fans would have called him and imcompetent rookie, and had a go at his driving standards yet again. Amazing


Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

And your saying all the JPM fans arnt says schumi isnt imcompetent for braking "hard" in the tunnel ?



AMD Athlon 64 3200 - Asus K8VSE Deluxe Motherboard - Antec TruePower 550W PSU - Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu Ultra-Quiet CPU Cooler - GeIL 1GB PC3200 Golden Dragon CAS2 - Sapphire ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256MB DDR3 TV-Out/DVI - Western Digital Caviar 120GB Special Edition 8MB Cache Serial ATA - Samsung SC-152AEBB 52x CD-ROM - NEC ND2500A 8x DVD±R/±RW - OcUK Floppy Drive - Windows XP Pro - Chenbro Gaming Bomb with Side Window - Samsung Samtron 76E 17" CRT Monitor