The Official Chinese Grand Prix Thread *** SPOILERS with crispy noodles***

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Sauber have done well!

Just came here to make a thread, but you'd just done it!! Grazie, Grazie, GRAZIE!!!!!!! Ayeeeeeee, Forza Laton!

I'm kinda looking forward to this race. The view on the opening lap or two down the back straight, when the full fuel load is sitting the cars down, should be really something. There could be some epic sparking reminiscent of Spa 1992. Would be ideal if it's a dull day so it gets shown off.

Should be a Mercedes race, so I'll expect a boring one up at the front, then I can't be disappointed. Hope a few nice surprises happen though, it seems to have that vibe about it.

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Hehe, hadn't really followed practice as I tend to prioritise being well slept for work (I've grown up and become boring). But here are some il conceived thoughts on the qualify.

Merc had that easy, as they probably ought to have. The result was very close between Lewis and Britney, but in reality it's probably not as close as it looked as Lewis fluffed his last lap and apparently has enjoyed a comfortable cushion over Britney all weekend.

The Malaysia form and result may have prematurely raised expectations, but it was kind of disappointing to see how far off Mercs pace Ferrari qualified. Kimi definitely dropped the ice-cream on this one as he should have been able to get P4 minimum. There's still a feeling that the way the car looks after it's tyres will enable them to irritate the Mercs in the race, but with the cooler temperatures here the overall the form swings firmly back into Mercs court.

Despite hearing from The Red Bull teams about how they can match Williams... in reality Williams are on their own as third fastest car (for now). Only Ricciardo of the Red Bull quartet made it to Q3 and despite free practice they're not exactly looking like they have the actual pace to mix it. It was a slight bonus for the the Williams to split the Ferraris but I doubt that'll hold in the race. I sense some frustration from Bottas, he seemed to overdrive and made too many mistakes. The performance gap to Merc is too big to bridge with driving heroics and perhaps Massa's experience was beneficial today as he got more from the car without over driving it.

Good result for Sauber, two cars in the top ten. But I think we can expect STR to move forward in the race and hence the lower points paying positions could see quite a bit of competition. I think both STR and Lotus ought to be able to mix it with Sauber.

Behind them it'll be Findia versus McLaren Honda. A third consecutive double Q1 knockout for McLaren slightly masks the progress McLaren seem to be making and they will again be able to actually race the other cars in the midfield. Points are unlikely but I'm confident that they'll gradually solve the reliability issues in the powertrain and they will be competitive before the season is out.

Manor in a league of their own, at the back. But at least they're there, at least the cars are running and at least they both qualified within 107%. If only Bernie and Fearnly would STFU about it all.

So far Alonso has managed to complete every single racing lap in China, starting in 2004. A pretty staggering achievement really.
Since it'll be under massive threat in this race with the unreliability and slow pace of the current Macca, I thought I'd give it a quick mention while it's still intact.

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That's a staggering stat Eddy! Bloody hell.

The race somehow managed to mix as boring as it gets with some light-hearted fun and racing. Well done China - not an easy task!

Oh yeah, while I remember.

I'm not sure if it's a sign of the phorum's inactivity or how f1 is being perceived this season, but a completed GP with only 6 posts? I worry that this place is indeed acting as a bellwether for the general population's interest in F1 at the moment

A bit of both, but China normally interests me as much as dust. I didn't even bother watching any of the practice sessions.

Sauber are still impressing me. With all the money troubles and legal wrangling and two rookies, how they've managed to produce such a tidy package after that shitbox they rolled up with at Melbourne last year is nothing short of astounding.

Bit of Button brain-fade there. Braking problems? Sure thing Pastor.

Sour grapes from Rosberg. He knows if he gets beaten this year his career is as good as over.

Sauber are certainly doing a good job, but the improved Ferrari engine must surely take a lot of the credit for their improvement as well. At any rate, nice to see Nasr driving well and proving he deserved a chance.

As for the race, it was an interesting one but not a classic. Getting a bit disappointed that Rosberg is starting to show mental cracks already, don't think he's really going to pose much of a threat to Hamilton unless Lewis has bad luck with reliability or something. In fact, would probably have to bet on Vettel keeping 2nd in the points.

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X (@ed24f1)

we still have not gone to the races where rosberg does better. in my opinion some of those are: bahrain; monaco; spain. If life and sport have taught me somethin is that everything that has a beginning has and end. For example, take alonso's 2006 season. It turned upside down by the season finale. If you need an example of intra team changes, take prost and senna in 1988. Senna led with 7:3 wins, only for prost to fight back to 7:6 and nearly make it 7:7 at japan. This season is far from over because rosberg still is in the phase where he refuses to accept that he is slower. As long as he resists that, unlike the likes of berger, barrichello, irvine, coulthard etc., the battle is not over.

And Patrese. Patrese in 1992.

I do not know thr story behind patrese. Do you mean he accepted defeat early on or do you conpare him with rosberg?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Maldonado's SatNav yet. I feel for him, he was doing alright till that cocked up.

Talking of Maldonado, Jenson's contact with him was the funniest incident I've seen in F1 for a while. An excellent boomf*. It was a shame he got penalised at all really, considering that.

Macca had a much stronger showing this weekend altogether, their quali pace hasn't really improved yet but their race pace and reliability were much better, as shown by them ganging up on Maldonado's Lotus. Overall I thought they continued showing real promise.

Overall the race was pretty predictable and not very exciting up at the front, although Ferrari did manage to stay closer to Mercedes and push them harder than I was expecting. Nice drive from Lewis, did all he needed to do and managed the race pretty well. (Even if it was just a hat-trick and not quite the Grand Slam.) Great drive from Kimi, I want to see what he's capable of if he has a completely trouble-free weekend.

RedBull seem to be in a terrible decline right now, slow and unreliable... Christian Horner's face on the pitwall when Kvyat's engine blew said everything really. LOL at the rate they're going through engines too! Ricciardo's battle with Ericsson was a great watch though.

Shame about the slightly disappointing end with Verstappen's car stuck on the S/F straight. Shame too for Verstappen himself, that had been a stonking drive with at least two stunning moves.

Good to see Sauber clearly have a competitive car and Melbourne wasn't a one-off from them.

Nice work from Manor, getting both cars to the end. Fingers crossed that they keep this improvement going and their season really takes off once we get to the European races.


*Underused technical term for hitting a slower car up the back and bouncing it out of the way like a space hopper, in a comedy fashion. Ideally giving the slower car some air in the process(See Massa on DC at Melbourne 2008) but this is not essential.

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I was thinking perhaps Maldonado's brakes were failing, hence him running off at the pitlane entrance and turn 6, then his rather slow pace while failing to clear the McLarens, but apparently the brakes were only damaged by Button's torpedo.

It was a comedy error by Button, as much for who it was aimed at as for who launched it. I can't even recall the last time Button hit anyone with it being entirely his fault.

It was as spectacular a falling apart of a race as I've seen since Massa's collapse at Singapore in 2008. He'd been fast(!) and consistent(!!) up until that point.

Rivers of unwarranted tears from Red Bull and Rosberg. If Rosberg thinks that Hamilton is too slow, why doesn't he challenge for position? The team even changed strategy and let him pit first, which was an excellent opportunity. Instead he wails like both Hamilton and the team are somehow conspiring against him. Wah, wah, wah!

Red Bull, what can I say? They are going to pull out if they cannot get an engine supplier that can get wins? Well how about you beat the sister team, that has the same engines, before you lay all the blame at Renault? How about you realize, that F1 is not created to guarantee that you win?

Regarding Mclaren and Button, it seemed at first like Maldonado made two moves in defending, but on review, it actually seems that he was blameless. Ramming your competitor from the rear has always been slammed here, so why now is it okay? I can list hordes of examples that have been slammed here. Fact is, Button did not consider the loss of downforce from trailing and hence underestimated the situation in braking. Not champion worthy driving. Although he still manages to keep Alonso very much in check. I cannot for the life of me see where Alonso is bringing the £25 million retainer value for the team. Alonso is renowned for being able to wrestle impossible laptimes out of crap machinery, and Button is labelled as a bad qualifier. Well, Button is certainly giving Alonso enough of a challenge both in quals and in the races. And is it really worth £25 million to be able to challenge for 12th instead of 14th? What a waste of management effort and money that was to bring him to Macca. It would have been better to have focussed management efforts on development oversight, technical expansion and engineering talent recruitment.

And to those of you that think Macca will be challenging for wins this year or the the next... you are delusional. It is true that Honda have been very creative in the way they have designed the engine. But placing the electrical engine after the gearbox doesn't bring much more than 10-15 extra BHP. The drawback is that you cannot air cool the electrical engine, which means it is surrounded in oil. That oil runs about 300 degrees C, which is massive, and to compound matters the cooling fluid has to run through that to the electrical engine, hence it arrives pre-warmed. Thus the sealing problems that Honda had in testing.

IF they get that resolved, which is a massive challenge, and IF they get the rest of the engine to perform as well as Merc, and IF the aero of the Macca gets sorted, THEN we might see challenges for wins.

But that is not going to happen this year, and it is not going to happen next year either. Meanwhile, Macca is paying £25 million for Alonso to challenge Force Indias....

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2015 01:49PM by Morbid.

Quote
Morbid
Regarding Mclaren and Button, it seemed at first like Maldonado made two moves in defending, but on review, it actually seems that he was blameless. Ramming your competitor from the rear has always been slammed here, so why now is it okay? I can list hordes of examples that have been slammed here. Fact is, Button did not consider the loss of downforce from trailing and hence underestimated the situation in braking. Not champion worthy driving.

Button was 100% at fault and I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise.

The reaction is just due to the fact it was Button, and his goody-goody reputation rather than one of knocking people off. That and it was Maldonado, who had already @#$%& up his own race twice, and had a bit of "taste of his own medicine" to it. It was a shame as prior to his pitstop he was having a cracker (relatively) but it unravelled in rather comical form, even if Button hadn't assisted him.

MikaHalpinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure if it's a sign of the phorum's
> inactivity or how f1 is being perceived this
> season, but a completed GP with only 6 posts? I
> worry that this place is indeed acting as a
> bellwether for the general population's interest
> in F1 at the moment


Curent state of F1.. even Gp3 and Gp4 sections seem more active

there's something missing for me... i saw the race i did't bother to watch Australia, and i think this one was very active, a lot of duels, but still find that something is missing.. maybe the high sound of the engines, i don't know. apart form that not much has changed, good to see progress in the Mclaren garage, Maldonado still doing his.

and those comments from Rosberg about Hamilton's race... what a lady... so Hamilton has to control his race too?, MAN UP!

It is clear that rosberg is playing mind games... I, personally, see it the kind of piquet-mansell situation. Rosberg is not as fast as lewis, yet he does not want to yield. And although piquet was also slower than mansell, the fact he won the title in 1987 is yet another proof that we should never discard a driver, as long as he refuses to accept playing second fiddle.

@Slash, I think what you are missing is Schumacher :P. you were very active in the 2010-2012 forums :P

@Morbid: Alonso is paid as much as 25m because when management makes decision it is ALWAYS on past data. Even future predictions rely heavily on past performance. Alonso's past performance was well worth the 25m. he trashed raikkonen, trashed massa, and basically everyone bar Hamilton. I cant help a feeling that the accident in Barcelona has an effect on Alonso's performance. This, and the fact that button has covered afull race weekend (including a whole race) and two more days of testing than Alonso. indeed, if we assume Button has had 100% testing time, Alonso only had 66%. Adding the missed weekend at Australia and a potential remaining impact of his injury, and Alonso's performances actually look pretty good. He finished ahead of button in both races. As for qualy...we knew it is not Alonso's strong side, ever since massa started beating him towards the end of 2013 (or was it 2012) in qualys. Indeed, even in 2006 Alonso qualified pretty badly with his Renault but put out miracles in races (e.g. Suzuka 2006, Imola 2006).

I think you are missing the point mitadumapaga. We have two races with Alonso and Button. Alonso was beaten both in qual and race trim in China. He was beaten in qual in Malaysia, and was ahead by a whisker in the race. These are the stats. You can bring up excuses if you want, but they are unsubstantiated, if not confirmed by team or drivers. With what we have gotten, Button seems to be underrated compared to Alonso.

Which leads me to the next point, namely, regardless of how good Alonso is, there is no way to exploit the potential with the machinery that is available. This is true also for the immediate and mid-term future. The car might be good enough when his contract is beginning to expire. £25 million x2 is a lot of money. That money could have been spent where it was going to do good, as in the areas I suggested. Hiring Alonso, and spending all the time to get it done, was a case of gross mis-management of resources, money, project management and time at McLaren. There is NOTHING Alonso can do to fix the current engine issues that are facing Honda. There might be something he can do in feedback on aero and chassis/suspension, but the true potential of those areas cannot be revealed in testing unless the engine can be pushed to the max. Which it currently cannot. The crucial point is, no matter how good Alonso is, Macca cannot put that to good use!

Hiring Alonso was a mistake. This is not a reflection on Alonso as such (depending on Button it might be in the future!), but on Ron Dennis and Eric Boullier.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2015 07:56PM by Morbid.