Official 2014 Belgian Grand Prix thread ***SPOILERS with monkey seats***

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smoglessbutton4
Also, what happened to Grosjean that made him pit at the end of the first lap? I had thought when I saw him going into the pits that it was him who tagged Bianchi...

Ah fair enough then. Still it's Maldonado's fault though.

The booing was wrong though. Given the proximity to Germany you expect a lot of German fans, but Rosberg's a bit of a plastic German and the Brits swarm on Spa almost like they do Silverstone. Eddie Jordan, as much of a tit as he is, deserves credit for trying to diffuse that before it started.

Us Brits really know how to be unsporting sods when in a crowd.

Gentlemen, let the controversy begin.

Lewis Hamilton claims Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg admitted in a post-race meeting that he deliberately hit him during Sunday's Belgian Grand Prix.

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Well, it's simple. Either Lewis is lying or telling the truth. If he's lying, then it's the dirtiest move a proper racing driver could pull out. If he's telling the truth (which I honestly doubt), then Nico is in for some serious spanking, both from Mercedes and the fans (not to mention Hamilton's fanboys!).

But seriously, why would Nico ever say that? How can you use your wing as a sword just to pierce some guy's tyre!? That would require massive precision.
Maybe I'm proven wrong later, but for now Hamilton, who had already lost my respect, is now earning my hate. Sad for such an awesome driver he used to be.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

From Lewis' quotes I don't think Rosberg came out and said he intended to hit Hamilton (let's face it, if he wanted to he could have done it much worse), but that he didn't want to yield and back out of it - that's the point he wanted to prove. It's what Coulthard was saying about the incident during the race.

The sensationalist headlines don't tell the full story, but it'll be interesting to hear Rosberg's comeback to that one.

It's a shame Monza is two weeks away!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2014 06:53PM by gav.

Yaya! Controversy!

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GPGSL -
GPGSL-3 - Pizza Party Racing manager and driver
Nations Cup - Team Scotland manager

Hang on a sec... I've realised something!

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GPGSL -
GPGSL-3 - Pizza Party Racing manager and driver
Nations Cup - Team Scotland manager

I really would not put too much stock in this report. From Lewis to hard copy ...talk about lost in translation.
Nico did what on purpose? Go for the gap of course he did he shouldn't be a racing driver otherwise. Risk damage to both Lewis and his car absolutely not. After all he could have come off much worse.
But maybe after the move he refused to back off, nothing more than hundreds of racers have done through out the years including Lewis himself. Lewis has to stop thinking the track belongs to him ...... it doesn't, neither does the world Championship. He who dare's wins ... end of.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

Mercedes have confirmed to several journalists that the jist of what Hamilton has said is true, and Rosberg's made comment since the team meeting and hasn't denied it. Rosberg needs to come out and clarify exactly what he said, as if the FIA read into it what the media are and pursue it, he might well find himself missing Monza, irrespective of what Mercedes want.

I still feel the media are taking the literal reading of what Hamilton said rather than the whole picture. At no point does Hamilton state that Rosberg hit him on purpose, only that Rosberg admitted he "could have avoided it".



It's a shame that Williams didn't have the pace to challenge here, as many were feeling, but thinking about it, it's not a surprise. They have a less draggy car, which in all likelihood means the base car isn't working the air as well as the other cars, so when you start to take off a bit of wing, they lose more downforce relatively to their more optimised opponents. It's also the reason Red Bull were so quick compared to Mercedes as we know their car to be supreme.

It's all conjecture and maybe they just didn't get the car working as well as it could, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't merely challenging for the top 6 in Monza again, which most would feel would be their strongest track.

Then again I thought they'd go backwards in the race in Austria due to them working the tyres well in qualifying and potentially overworking them in the race, yet they could and maybe should have won.

Isaint Wrote:
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> I really would not put too much stock in this
> report. From Lewis to hard copy ...talk about lost
> in translation.
> Nico did what on purpose? Go for the gap of course
> he did he shouldn't be a racing driver otherwise.
> Risk damage to both Lewis and his car absolutely
> not. After all he could have come off much worse.
> But maybe after the move he refused to back off,
> nothing more than hundreds of racers have done
> through out the years including Lewis himself.
> Lewis has to stop thinking the track belongs to
> him ...... it doesn't, neither does the world
> Championship. He who dare's wins ... end of.

Yes, because the people that have direct access to the telemetry are of course totally wrong. You know, it wasn't more than a few races ago that this would be an automatic penalty, even if Lewis had slid completely off the racing line. Nico was right to go for the gap at the first corner, but he had no right to keep his nose in there for the second, and no other driver even tried to copy that move. Everyone else that tried and failed to go for the outside after the straight pulled out of it for the second corner. You kind of understand why.

Furthermore, Lewis didn't say he hit him on purpose. He said Nico deliberately allowed the collision to happen. That is not the same thing. So, apparantly, you are no better at getting the "translation" right either.

Hamilton's point was "You know, and you can ask Fernando [Alonso] and you can ask all drivers, when a car is less than half a car length alongside you and you are on the inside, it's your racing line". And that is indeed how the rules are phrased.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2014 08:29PM by Morbid.

Wow, what a race! So much to talk about.

Firstly the honourable mentions:

Ricciardo, what can you say? Mercedes display the smallest breach in their armour and he metaphorically rams through it like a colossus. He's been simply superb, all season.

Bottas, it looked like he was going to out strategised into P4/5/6, but he hung on in there, eeked out some life in his tyres, got the job done on a few overtakes and pulled a podium back out of the hat. Another very good quality drive and damage limitation in the Williams v Ferrari fight on another day for whatever reason, Massa didn't get the job done. I really hope he gets a big result soon, he's beginning to really need it.

Kimi and/or his strategy guy, that undercut on the first stint put him in podium contention, and despite fading badly towards the end it was his most assured drive since returning to Ferrari.

Magnussen, slightly naughty at times, but that was an epic piece of defensive driving. I haven't seen Alonso so esparated since getting stuck behind Petrov at Abu Dhabi.

Which ever Red Bull aerodynamist (Bound to be Newey) took the decision on running the lower than planned downforce package. Savvy choice my friend, savvy choice.

EJ, he may be a tit, but he was spot on during the podium interviews, and like Brundle before him at least he has the gumption to tell a booing crowd that they're out of order.

Shell, it may still be ever so slightly corporate but their winners trophies were substantially less naff than Santander's.

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That incident:

100% the fault of Rosberg.

However and sadly rather inevitably what a massive over reaction. DC summed it up best by calling it clumsy. It's inevitable when the title battle is as tense as it is and between teammates.

I respect Lauda and Wollf for calling it as they see it, but ultimately this kind of racing incident has always been on the cards ever since Bahrain. If you're going to let your drivers go toe to toe for the championship (and thank goodness, they have) then you have to expect the odd bit of carbon firbre to fly.

Although this collision was completely of Rosberg's doing, it ought to be rememberd that Hamilton has also been super aggressive at times in keeping Rosberg at bay earlier in the season, eventually Rosberg was going to keep his foot in somewhere and this is the result.

Well done to who ever took Hamilton aside immediately after his retirement and said "Look chap, don't take this opportunity to talk like a bellend", it's just a shame that it didn't carry to after the debrief, but anyway there were enough bellends in the crowd it seems :P but apart from that Hamilton was relatively pragmatic and what he said about saving the engine made good sense.

I don't think there's been a title rivalry this edgey and tense since Prost and Senna (even Schumacher v Hill pales by comparison). But the thing is... they're both in danger of taking their eye off the ball. "Abu Double" still has the potential to cause an upset.. and with that in mind, a certain smiley Aussie whose taking every opportunity to get the job done it still within range. It's not inconceivable that he could improve upon his current P3 in the points standings.

[www.gpupdate.net]

On the contrary I think my translation is spot on. I don't know what article you are translating but this is what I read. It says nothing about Hamilton saying that Nico allowed the incident to happen, just that he hit him deliberately to prove a point.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

[www.bbc.co.uk]

One thing that bothers me is how far to the right Nico was - he certainly still had all 4 wheels on the track when they made contact. It's not like Lewis ran him out of road.

As some of the Sky team said, it was kind of a rookie mistake to make... You can't see your own front wing, but can imagine where it is well enough, and he could see Lewis's rear tyre as a reference point. He turned left to avoid Lewis to begin with, then turned back in a fraction more sharply than he needed to.

That, the anger from the team management, Nico's reluctance to apologise or deny Lewis's comments or clarify what he said and his apparent repeated references to Bahrain... Hmmm.

It would be out of character, but these factors are starting to snowball. I really hope this was a genuine accident.

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Isaint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.gpupdate.net]
>
> On the contrary I think my translation is spot on.
> I don't know what article you are translating but
> this is what I read. It says nothing about
> Hamilton saying that Nico allowed the incident to
> happen, just that he hit him deliberately to prove
> a point.

Quote
Hamilton said, from your article of choice
"He said he could have avoided it, but he didn't want to. He basically said, 'I did it to prove a point'."

Which means he saw it was about to happen and he didn't prevent it. That is not what you are claiming, namely that he deliberately hit him. Learn to read.

EC83 Wrote:
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> One thing that bothers me is how far to the right
> Nico was - he certainly still had all 4 wheels on
> the track when they made contact. It's not like
> Lewis ran him out of road.

As you can see from the picture above, he had at least one car's width of space. Totally unwarrented collision. Alonso went on the grass to avoid the same, and Vettel took to the curbs.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2014 09:56PM by Morbid.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis is lying to cause bigger stir as part of his mediocre, actually embarrasing mind games..

Honestly it seems like a genuine incident, things happen very fast i doubt he had a clear intention to do it
video: [www.youtube.com]

Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isaint Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > [www.gpupdate.net]
> >
> > On the contrary I think my translation is spot
> on.
> > I don't know what article you are translating
> but
> > this is what I read. It says nothing about
> > Hamilton saying that Nico allowed the incident
> to
> > happen, just that he hit him deliberately to
> prove
> > a point.
>
>
> "He said he could have avoided it, but he didn't
> want to. He basically said, 'I did it to prove a
> point'."
>
>
> Which means he saw it was about to happen and he
> didn't prevent it. That is not what you are
> claiming, namely that he deliberately hit him.
> Learn to read.


ok, yeah that's a lot better... i was sceptical about that tbh, the media's main job is to create headlines

> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One thing that bothers me is how far to the
> right
> > Nico was - he certainly still had all 4 wheels
> on
> > the track when they made contact. It's not like
> > Lewis ran him out of road.
>
> As you can see from the picture above, he had at
> least one car's width of space. Totally
> unwarrented collision. Alonso went on the grass to
> avoid the same, and Vettel took to the curbs.

The reason why Rosberg is in trouble at Mercedes is, that allowing a situation between the two develop into damaging contact without taking evasive action, is against the rules of engagement, that they all agreed upon internally before the season started. In effect, he has broken a promise to the team and his team mate.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

here is my view on the situation, after I saw the video:

1.in the middle of the corner rosberg turns left because if he doesn't they will crash (see how lewis cuts left)

2. then rosberg turns right again (and this is where the controversy begins). There can only be one logical reason for that: he wants to compromise lewis' line for the left hander.

3. Hamilton though , does not wish to compromise his line (stupid really as he can never get overtaken in that situation at this part of the track)

4. Thus, Hamilton straightens his car, cuts across to the left, takes his normal racin line and ..... puts his race in the hands of rosberg AGAIN!!!!

COCNCLUSION: it has been several races now, that Hamilton left it out to rosberg to decide whether they will crash. It worked on button - it did not work on Nico.

CONCLUSION 2: hamilton may proportion blame on rosberg, yet Hamilton CANNOT deny that he himself could have avoided the RISK of an accident. He didn't. He thought Rosberg would yield, but it was a risky call. Nothing too much to talk about. I feel sorry for Lewis, but he just left his race one time too many in the hands of Rosberg, and it was eventually going to happen. THis is why Nico refers so much to bahrain - because Lewis left it to him (Rosberg) to decide whether they will crash or not. Turkey 2010 with Button is a very appropriate example for that.

Again, this is only my opinion. It is based on the facts which I read from the video, based on my experience racing GP4 and watching F1 battles for 15 years.

Racing incident. Rosberg didn't want to yield, and Hamilton didn't want to give room. Apportioning blame solves nothing because both sides could have taken steps to avoid it.

The rest of the race was awesome though, even though I was really disappointed Lotterer couldn't make it past the first lap...the guy was awesome this weekend.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> here is my view on the situation, after I saw the
> video:
>
> 1.in the middle of the corner rosberg turns left
> because if he doesn't they will crash (see how
> lewis cuts left)
>
> 2. then rosberg turns right again (and this is
> where the controversy begins). There can only be
> one logical reason for that: he wants to
> compromise lewis' line for the left hander.
>
> 3. Hamilton though , does not wish to compromise
> his line (stupid really as he can never get
> overtaken in that situation at this part of the
> track)
>
> 4. Thus, Hamilton straightens his car, cuts across
> to the left, takes his normal racin line and .....
> puts his race in the hands of rosberg AGAIN!!!!
>
> COCNCLUSION: it has been several races now, that
> Hamilton left it out to rosberg to decide whether
> they will crash. It worked on button - it did not
> work on Nico.
>
> CONCLUSION 2: hamilton may proportion blame on
> rosberg, yet Hamilton CANNOT deny that he himself
> could have avoided the RISK of an accident. He
> didn't. He thought Rosberg would yield, but it was
> a risky call. Nothing too much to talk about. I
> feel sorry for Lewis, but he just left his race
> one time too many in the hands of Rosberg, and it
> was eventually going to happen. THis is why Nico
> refers so much to bahrain - because Lewis left it
> to him (Rosberg) to decide whether they will crash
> or not. Turkey 2010 with Button is a very
> appropriate example for that.
>
> Again, this is only my opinion. It is based on the
> facts which I read from the video, based on my
> experience racing GP4 and watching F1 battles for
> 15 years.

Even if this is ALL granted to be true, then going against the code of conduct of the team, which Nico has himself accepted, and were the situation reversed he would be pointing out, puts the problem at the feet of Nico. If Hamilton expects that Rosberg will honour an internal agreement about the limits of racing each other, then he would be quite right expecting Nico to withdraw from that particular challenge. That's inescapable. However, Lewis claimed that Nico was in his blind spot. I don't know about the geometry of the mirrors of the Mercedes car, but it is not unreasonable. However we also know that it is the favourite (and abused) excuse in the paddock. Contrary, Nico holds that the fact that he wasn't even under investigation proves his innocence. The problem is, that is not true. He was in fact under investigation, even though no action was taken.

More to the point, Nico from a racing point of view had nothing to gain. Sure he could probably claw his way to some degree onto the side of Lewis by slowing him down in the corner, but not pass him, so what does that yield? He is on the outside at Malmedy, and Lewis would be able to force him onto the curb with impunity and unpunished. As we know from practice, that delays you significantly, so all he could accomplish was setting himself under attack from behind. It does not make sense as a racing move, but as a move intended "to prove a point" (ie. I WILL NOT YIELD, just like you would not in Hungary!) it makes perfect sense. If he wanted to overtake, why not just sit there for a lap, and then blast past with DRS on the following lap? He quite frankly seems to be more than content taking his sweet time passing other contenders, as we have seen throughout the season.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2014 12:16AM by Morbid.

That said, my personal opinion is, that he knew that Hamilton was too fast, and he feared that if he didn't reign him in now, he would never get the chance again. Remember the episode in qualifying, where even though Hamilton messed up the braking at T1 in qualifying, he still managed to beat Nico's split time for the first sector. He messed up bus stop, costing him a second or so, and still managed fastest lap too. And Lewis gave Nico a great run for his money with glazed brake pads. I think he just set aggression on max and forgot to use his head. All the smoke we are hearing afterwards is IMHO rationalization after the fact. Surely Nico would rather say "racing incident" or "to prove a point", than say "It was my only chance and I overcooked it". That would be admitting inferiority straight in the face of his worst competitor.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2014 12:24AM by Morbid.