2012 Italian Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

Someone raised a great point on another forum about Merc and why they might want Lewis.

Nico is not that highly rated many have said before hes not that fast, MS is beating him and hes past his best. So maybe the best is not actually being got out of that car.

As for the race today, great job by Lewis done what he had to do.

Perez start of the race, some great moves he pulled off.

Alonso what can you say, stunning drive again.

RBR lol it was funny. They have really had their wings cut this year. Vettel deserved the penalty.

Unlucky for Button, but hes not 4 races behind Alonso with only 7 races left, they have to get him to support Lewis now as he has no chance really. He needs Alonso not to score in 4 races and him to win put to get level.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 08:27PM by marcl.

Epic Alonso, nice team work from Massa. Right strategy played by Sauber, great drive by Perez.
Lewis wins not a single problem there, perfect drive, shame about Button, out of the Blue that one.
The Bulls seamed to have been neutered, and Mercedes .... well the less said about them the better because no matter what race they are in the comment will always be the same. The car simply is not there.
As for Kimmi, uneventful fifth place bout sums that one up.

Why would Lewis even consider going to Mercedes is beyond me, I guess he's finished with wanting to be 'World Champion' ever again then? As for the car, I do not believe that car has anything more to offer than what it is already showing. Michael is over-driving the damed thing.
Nico for my money is underated but his problem lies with the cars total inconsistency he just cant seem to adapt so well. I mean the bloody thing is different in every race and I dont mean set up values either but above and beyond that ....... in between it breaking.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 09:05PM by Isaint.

gav Wrote:
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> End of the European season, and Maldonado has
> scored zero points since Barcelona.
>
> And Senna is still behind him in the championship.


imho, second worst duo after DeLaRosa-Karthikeyan, when Maldonado has a chance he himself @#$%& it up, but Senna can't even perform at all.

Congrats to Lewis on a controlled dominant race, Alonso's race was excellent as well, great performance once again.
Shame that Mercedes has lost all performance, Michael drove his heart out today but imho the only way they perform is at the end of the race when they are light on fuel and put new tyres.
they make it seem as if it is a desicion that doesn't affect their race time, but in reality it does, it's the only way they can keep performance on that thing, otherwise they will always end up loosing places.

as for Vettel, it seems he missed the meeting at Silverstone.

Epic Perez, epic Sauber

cheers

Good job by Hamilton, I guess he was happy with his rear wing this weekend, bad luck for Button with the fuel pick-up but Hamilton had him beaten again today, plus a shoddy start and he was fortunate not to get a penalty after going green in S1 when they were recovering Vergne's car.

Another super drive by Perez, he really is a master at conserving these Pirellis and I struggle to think of the last time a customer Ferrari beat a works one to the Monza podium!

Good damage limitation by Alonso, he's still staking his claim to this championship, Massa will be gutted to lose out on a podium finish but he wasn't quick enough ultimately.

Vettel's penalty was harsh, yes Alonso got to the grass yet Vettel was still clearly ahead and would not have been aware of Alonso's closing speed. It was tough racing but ultimately you can't always be responsible for the car behind and it was less worthy of a penalty than Di Resta's clumsy defence on Senna.

Speaking of Senna, that point was dumbluck, once again he made hardwork of what should have been a points worthy car, with mistskes, poor race craft, inconsistency and persisting on a long stint strategy when was neither quick enough nor light enough on his tyres to make it work. Williams need to accept that he is not Sergio Perez and stop putting him on such strategy. It tells a lot that he only finished a second or so ahead of Maldonaldo who did a two stop and started 22nd.. Oh and the fact that Maldonaldo actually made it through incident and penalty free is a minor shock in itself.

Oh... And great battle for 2nd in the championship now going on between Hamiliton, Kimi and Vettel.

Good race, shame that Perez ran out of laps to catch Lewis, that would have been an epic finish. A solid drive from Alonso as we've come to expect this year, and it worked out well for him championship wise. With McLaren looking quick and no doubt Red Bull being strong at some of the remaining races it should be a great run to the end of the season.

Even as a Ferrari fan I think Vettel's penalty was harsh, Alonso closed on him so quickly that I don't think Vettel expected him to be there.

Also based on the end of the race I now think that Lewis will be leaving McLaren at the end of the year. Hamilton's radio comments along the lines of "thanks for the opportunity" sounded to me like someone who is leaving, he also seemed a bit subdued when he got out of the car. Whitmash didn't seem ecstatic with the result, even accounting for Button's DNF I'd have expected a better reaction than that. And finally when Simon Lazenby interviewed Ron Dennis right after the podium he asked "McLaren and Lewis Hamilton a match made in heaven?" And Ron said something along the lines of "Well... <pause> he won the race which is all we could want from him today."

Quote
J i m
Another super drive by Perez, he really is a master at conserving these Pirellis and I struggle to think of the last time a customer Ferrari beat a works one to the Monza podium!

That'll be 2008.


I'm not sure what was going through Massa's head when he lifted when Perez was in his slipstream. That was millimetres from one heck of an accident - Perez would have ended up on the banking.

kedy89 Wrote:
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> flat tyre
> I think 2011 was just enough space, whereas 2012
> was just not enough space.
>
> After seeing both again, I've to say you're right
> with this.

I really can't see Alonso being alongside Vettel at any time. Having said that I must ask how can you push someone who is behind you?

hello dear community,

reding the posts above and being a schumacher fan i wanted to discuss the established opinion that the mercedes isn't fast enough. Well if one could easily say that for any of the last couple of races, don't think that applies to the situation for the race at Monza.

If you look at the beginning of the race, schumacher was about 8 seconds ahead of rosberg at one point. In the end he only finished about 1-2 sec. in front of Rosberg. If you add those let's say 10 seconds to schumacher's time, he could have easily challenged for a podium today, since he finished roundabout 10 seconds behind alonso.

It raises the question to me, wheter the mercedes really have 2 very fast and consistent drivers, hmmm.... maybe a Lewis in that car would be a good benchmark to see where the car actually stands.

I'm getting the impression that the Merc driver who stays on next year might be MS and not Nico. Just a hunch, no way of confirming it yet, but Nico has been pretty lacklustre and anonymous recently, and if Michael was going to retire at the end of this season I think there would've been an announcement about it by now.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2012 01:28PM by EC83.

Schuey has already said that he will make his announcement in October.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Lazenby Watch, Monza Edition - what's an Anti-roll Hoop?

I'm worried, his annoyingness is starting to obsess me a bit...

Lol, how the @#$%& did I forgot about Toro Rosso's victory in 08?! Thanks Gav.

Regarding the Lazenby watch... Once I got my laptop and vipbox communicating to each other I was again inflicted to SKY due to the lack of live coverage by the beeb and he's still definitely not as smooth as Humphrey and overall the coverage still does not flow because the presentation and punditry doesn't gel like it does on the BBC. Brundle is as good as ever and that Roebuck fester on Ronnie Peterson was brilliant but apart from that... Yawn and let's pick out the mistakes. Perhapps we shouldn't pick on the mistakes too much because the BBC make plenty enough as well and EJ speaks total gobshyte but they're just more watchable.

The whole BBC thing has the feeling of discussing F1 over a nice lunch in a country pub with some mates. It's so relaxed and welcoming. The times I've watched Sky, they've been nothing like that, and even the last race I saw it felt no better than I remember it being in Melbourne.

I can understand why some don't like the style of Ben Edwards, but he's got genuine passion and enthusiasm (the opposite of Legard) and it's not forced like James Allen was during his ITV days - that's just the way Edwards is (very much like Murray, though not as lovable). Like I say, I can understand why some don't like him, but I'd much rather have him than than a stale Legard talking about 'up the hill' and 'round the bend' every @#$%& lap.

i think the commentary of the SKY is better, whereas BBC are better in the post race analysis. The questions on SKY post race are simply very strange sometimes. Hill asked Kaltenborn how are they planing to become a top team like mclaren. for a team that has very limited ressources and is fighting for its survival I dont believe the main priority is how to become a top team like Macca or ferrari.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2012 07:04PM by mitadumapaga.

gav Wrote:
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> The whole BBC thing has the feeling of discussing
> F1 over a nice lunch in a country pub with some
> mates. It's so relaxed and welcoming. The times
> I've watched Sky, they've been nothing like that,
> and even the last race I saw it felt no better
> than I remember it being in Melbourne.
>
> I can understand why some don't like the style of
> Ben Edwards, but he's got genuine passion and
> enthusiasm (the opposite of Legard) and it's not
> forced like James Allen was during his ITV days -
> that's just the way Edwards is (very much like
> Murray, though not as lovable). Like I say, I can
> understand why some don't like him, but I'd much
> rather have him than than a stale Legard talking
> about 'up the hill' and 'round the bend' every
> @#$%& lap.
I must admit, I was really looking forward to Edwards finally returning to commentating on F1, but i find his modern style too much "narrator one minute then screaming his head off at the slightest moment the next", unlike in the past where he would sound like he was chatting with you, then an appropriate amount of "shouting" when it was needed.

That's what the BTCC does to you I guess.

I think Ben Edwards is fine. I admit that I wasn't looking forward to him (don't like his F1 DVD commentaries), but I've been pleasantly surprised. He's by far my favourite since Murray Walker and (imo) certainly the closest we've been to Muzza since he retired.

I think Brundle's past it tbh, he's still good but DC is just as good, if not better. Brundle's too cynical imo. I never really liked the Sky analysis or commentary from the start of the season... I'd much rather wait for the BBC highlights, just for the better viewing experience.

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

I don't like the Sky buildup and post race. It's way too drawn out and the personalities aren't as good. I actually find EJ quite funny to be honest too.

On another note, I didn't really like the use of team orders. I know it's legal, and that Massa probably would have let Fernando by or been passed anyway. Still, at least the old rule protected the second driver, and gave them a bit of a choice.

But it didn't really did it? All that rule ever really did is force teams (mostly Ferrari) to put the second driver on a duff strategy, fluff pit-stops or come up with some fictious car ailment, fading brakes for Irvine was a favourite of Ferrari at one point.

It's important to remember that team-orders and tactics have always been part of F1, right from the very beginning when a lead driver could takeover the car of a team-mate part way through a race if their own had broken down. And No.1 - No.2 or biased arrangements had existed long before Schumacher's era at Ferrari.

Andretti and Petersen at Lotus, Scketcher and Villeneuve at Ferrari, Jones and Rueterman at Williams to name a few.

But it was 4 incidents (well 3, as the 3rd happend twice) that really brought the rule into force.

Firstly there was the agreement between Williams and McLaren to basically let Hakkinen win the race at Jerez 1997 in return non-interference or help in Villeneuve's tiltle show down with Schumacher. That caused a bit of a stir.

Then there was the so called gentlemans agreement between Hakkinen and Coulthard that who ever of them got to the first corner first at Melbourne 1998 would win the race and they'd hold station there afterwards. That upset a lot of people it being the first race and all.

And then what perhapps were the biggest insults, A1 Ring 01 and 02 in which Ferrari ordered Barrichello to concede position to Schumacher despite having a drastically comfortable lead in the championships. That one definitely was not well recieved at all and basically led to the no team orders rule.

There are ofcourse earlier examples of team-orderly or gentlemans agreements, but those three seemed to be the catalyst for rule.

We may not like team orders but we know that some teams will always resort to them, at least they can now be honest about it.

It's probably worth noting that Massa let Perez through easier than he did Alonso. Other than Massa not defending, it just looked like a DRS pass.