2012 European Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

As much as agreeing with Lewis pains me, I'm a fair guy, and Lewis did absolutely the right thing with Maldonado and was totally correct also IMO in saying that "you always have to fight for your position". Perhaps he could have made an exception this time, as Maldonado would most likely have passed him the next lap or taken him out trying so it would have fitted into Lewis's 2012 philosophy of consistent points to allow Maldonado through. If it had been any other driver (probably), there wouldn't have been an accident.

Still though, Maldonado has been begging for a DSQ for a while and so I'm glad that drivers aren't letting him get away with his ridiculous driving even if it means their own races are getting screwed over. Either Maldonado will learn after he creates yet another accident that the other drivers arent going to put up with his @#$%&, or he won't and he'll get slapped by the FIA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 11:34AM by elemental.

Can someone clear up this Hamilton-Maldonado crash for me? I'm not biased in any way but I feel like the only person in the world who thinks that it was Hamilton's fault.

Maldonado was clearly right up alongside Hamilton, as far as I am concerned Hamilton had the obligation to give Maldonado room. Hamilton kept driving at his normal speed, but because of his worn tyres he went wide and pushed Maldonado off track. I think he should have backed off. Maldonado had nowhere to go, and stayed alongside because he wasn't going to be held back by unsporting behaviour. Hamilton chopped him again and boom they crash.

I can see why people think Maldonado was at fault, and normally I would blame the person outside the white lines, but come on. If someone pushed me off the track I wouldn't be having any of it, either.

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

He has a very arrogant temperament.

I saw him on at least two occasions, once against Kimi, once against someone else in that race where he went down the inside and then clean ran them off the road coming out of the corner.
Hamilton does that to him and he calls him "aggressive". Pot, kettle and black, please?

Couple that with his strange incidents at Spa last year, Monaco this year and you get a clear picture of what he is - a hot headed, immature person who has some growing up to do before he is taken seriously.

He clearly has speed, but he needs to sort his life out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 12:17PM by loque.

I think in the case of Lewis sometimes you have to pick who you will race hard with.

People like Alonso and Kimi you know they will leave you on the track, people like Maldonado and Koby will have you off.

I don't think it was Lewis fault btw but 4th is better than in the wall, you did not see Vettel and Alonso fighting that hard in Canada when they new a driver would pass anyway. I just don't think Lewis used his brain in this fight, he did not fight Kimi like that.

As someone said on the BBC though had the pit stop not gone wrong he would have never been in that fight. Mclaren have actually cost Lewis 27 points this year you do the maths.

marcl Wrote:
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> Mclaren have actually cost Lewis 27 points
> this year you do the maths.


Is that before or after yesterday?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 02:52PM by alexf1man.

That has to be before, it's a lot more now. If you look at yesterday a bit optimistically it could be over 50.

The argument of lost points is... pointless?

I could then argue that Ferrari have cost Alonso by building a crap car at the start. In the end, it is what is. Alonso suffered at the start, and Lewis has suffered from mistakes within the team. That happens though.

Also regarding the Lewis incident. Whitmarsh said Lewis did the same with Pastor, as he did with Grosjean and Kimi. I would certainly disagree in that Kimi and Grosjean WERE given the room on the outside. I do think it was Pastor's fault, but from what I saw Lewis did give Kimi and Grosjean that little bit more space. At that stage of the race was Lewis perhaps desperate and greedy?

On the flip side was Pastor was too desperate to get past knowing Webber and Schumacher were coming? He could have waited.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I see it as a racing incident.

Hamilton's defence was robust and assertive but in no way questionable. Sure given the state of his tyres at this point he'd have been wise to let Maldonaldo go but he had every right to defend his position in the way he did do he was not at fault.

Maldonaldo is aggressive and exciting to watch. He put in a couple of very assertive overtaking moves which were on me point of being rude, those cars were ultimately accomdating. He was unlucky to collide with Hamilton but it was his impetuiousness that caused that collision even though I doubt there was any malice behind it.

Once Hamilton took the corner and closed the door to the track's limits, Maldonaldo should have backed out. He had the tyres to try again. So ultimately it was a error of judgement on his part.

I can see Williams neededing to sit both Maldonaldo and Senna down and giving them a talking to. Because they've wasted that car on too many ocassions now. This is the reason why many of us were saying that a Barrichello or a Sutil were by far the best options for them. Even more so considering that the car is actually unexpectedly competitive.

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flat tyre
Can someone clear up this Hamilton-Maldonado crash for me? I'm not biased in any way but I feel like the only person in the world who thinks that it was Hamilton's fault.

For me, ironically, it bears similarity to the incident between Hamilton and Raikkonen at Spa in 2008. In that instance, there was nothing stopping Hamilton from getting on the brakes, slotting in behind Kimi and trying again later. I think it was similar with Maldonado - Lewis didn't give him the space, so he went off the track - there was nothing to stop him dropping in behind and trying again later in the lap, even if he had to go off track to avoid Hamilton.

This is difficult though, as I've always believed that if a driver is alongside you, you give him space. You shouldn't have to overtake on the inside, and you shouldn't be allowed to force someone off the track if they are on your outside, just because you've taken the inside line into the corner. It's been this way for at least a decade now (my first vivid memory of it is Schumacher forcing Montoya off the track at Imola), and it really boils my blood. Watching the BTCC at Croft yesterday was the same. I really wish they'd crack down on it.

alexf1man Wrote:
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> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mclaren have actually cost Lewis 27 points
> > this year you do the maths.
>
>
> Is that before or after yesterday?

Before yesterday. Its been worked out as well that had it not been or that pit stop problem Lewis would have been well clear of Kimi and the Williams. Kimi may have caught him but not the Williams. So taking that into account its 40 points Lewis has lost this year.

Alonso has lost none and Vettel has lost 25.

Maldonado should have used the escape road and rejoined there, yes he would have still been behind but he would have past him anyway. For me both drivers were silly but what Maldonado done was the same as Massa in Japan when he hit Lewis.

I think Lewis cracked and went back to his old self yesterday - in the car at least, his interview afterwards was impressively mature compared with past ones. There was no way he was going to fend Maldonado off for the rest of the race on tyres that worn, even if there were only a couple of laps left. Maldonado is well known for being fiery and feisty, and he was always going to go for it. He's also not a title contender, so Lewis had no reason not to let him go. His defense against Kimi smacked of desperation too.
I know it's easy to say when you're not the one in the car with the pressure and the adrenaline flowing, but percentage driving is something the top drivers have always been able to do. Lewis has driven easily his most mature season so far this year, but yesterday he screwed up.

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Yeah, he should have let him go in hindsight, but it's something I've always done in sim leagues. In a VaderTrophy league race I once fought off a driver who was 1.5 seconds a lap quicker a lap in a car with a 15mph straight line speed advantage (Eagle vs my Brabham in GPL) by braking stupidly late into the 2 overtaking places in a lap (1967 Snetterton). It was probably the single-most high of an achievement I've had in GPL, or certainly up there. The sense of defeating what feels like the impossible is something else, and I don't think the buzz you get from it can't be replicated in anything but racing.

Those emotions obviously translate to real racing as much as sim racing, so I've sympathy for Hamilton for attempting to do the impossible. He didn't fight tooth and nail for it, banging wheels Villeneuve-Arnoux style, or Massa-Kubica style, but he made it difficult and ensured Maldonado had to come up with a cracking move to get by... sadly, this is Maldonado, and the cracking was Hamilton's suspension.

Like I said, in hindsight it was a mistake to put his car in the position he did, and I think some of his frustration was directed towards himself for that, but he's a racer, and in the heat of the moment, the race matters more than the championship. He'll be remembered that way when he retires, and I think among the real racing fans, that counts more for reputation than having been a double world champion... look at how much most of us look back at the championship-less Gilles Villeneuve, and most of us didn't even see him race.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 08:54PM by gav.

everyone cried yesterday ;d

alonso cried on the podium,
schumacher cried (i think) on the team radio
and vettel cried (i am sure) behind the scenes, in the motorhome

wadda race !

mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> everyone cried yesterday ;d
>
> alonso cried on the podium,
> schumacher cried (i think) on the team radio
> and vettel cried (i am sure) behind the scenes, in
> the motorhome
>
> wadda race !


A lot of images from this race will stay with me for a long time... while I was watching I knew it was something special

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marcl Wrote:
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> people like Maldonado and
> Koby will have you off.

I actually think Koby has calmed down a lot this year. Valencia notwithstanding.

Bit of an unfair comment on Koby.

The guy probably pulled off more gritty overtakes for position in Suzuka alone than the likes of, for example, Vettel has his whole career to date.

Percentage ratio of overtakes to collisions puts it into perspective. I think Koby is one hell of a driver with pretty decent spacial awareness. So yeah, 40+ overtakes and 5 dodgy ones doesn't seem so bad, does it?


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

Maldonado is starting to remind me of Montoya. Whatever he's doing, whether it's impressive or @#$%&, he's always entertaining. And that surely makes him a welcome addition to F1.

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danm
The guy probably pulled off more gritty overtakes for position in Suzuka alone than the likes of, for example, Vettel has his whole career to date.

Percentage ratio of overtakes to collisions puts it into perspective.

To be fair, most of those overtakes probably classed as collisions too.

He also didn't do even as many overtakes as Vettel has in any given full season. Plus Vettel is often out in front anyway, where it's difficult to overtake for position.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2012 06:09PM by EC83.

I still do not understand why Bruno got the drive though on Sunday tbh. Front what I can see there was never a gap.

Its no worse than Nico done to Alonso at Barhain, only there was a run off area. But Koby was never along side and would not have got along side.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2012 08:11PM by marcl.